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Originally posted by Model_Dr:
Hello Everyone,

Make no mistake about animal based oil including Emu oil; it's simply NOT cruelty free! The primary source of rendered animals is slaughterhouses!! It’s not a question of rumor but a true reality.

Here a Quote I found online at: http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=72
"The pri-mary source of rendered animals is slaughterhouses, which provide the "inedible" parts of all animals killed for food.

Animal ingredients are used not because they are better than vegetable-derived or synthetic ingredients but rather because they are generally cheaper. Today's slaughterhouses must dispose of the byproducts of the slaughter of billions of animals every year and have found an easy and profitable solution in selling them to food and cosmetics manufacturers."

I saw a post from Skin Biology that mention that no Emu was killed for the Oil but the animal must be DEAD to get the oil out of it, so by using this oil we contribute to Emu farming. If understand this right, the oil doesn't come from their feathers nor other process while the animal is still alive.

In my opinion I cannot in good conscience use oil that I know many animals has suffer and was killed for selfish needs and vanity! Beside I disdain it, just the thought of having oil coming from the insides organs/meat of an animal applied to my skin make my stomach turn.

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Originally posted by Kathrynn:
http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/poultry/5143.html
Just an outline of the guidlines on emu farms etc. In the more Northern parts of Australia the Emu is no different than a chicken or cow is to other cultures. But I do understand and respect others opinions on this matter. The emu farms that I have seen have been free range if thats of any help.

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Originally posted by DebbieNIR:

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Originally posted by Bio_101:
_I must clear up some of the un-founded comments about cruelty free cosmetics and vegetarian diet. This post is to clarify and give out proper information about nutrition which is scientifically documented by some of the best universities around the world.

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The same universities that are paid by industry to pump out studies to support whoever pays them? There are actually more university studies supporting my argument than yours, but since 95% of them are all bought and paid for, what is the point?

The health of North Americans is in serious trouble beacuse of the horrible misinformation supplied by trained nutritionists and the government food pyramid!

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It’s un professional and unethical to give out information that is false to discourage a diet and lifestyle they one do not agree with!!

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I am talking about science, not my disagreement with a lifestyle. I have no "opinion" on any lifestyle except that based on science. You have the nerve to register, and with your first post attack my professionalism or ethics? Look in the mirror!

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It's the same as supporting cosmetics that are tested on poor animals that are tortured for no reason except our vanity. By using these products you are contributing to the farming of Emu bird, which is being part of the reason these animals are killed! If there’s a demand for a product, it must be supplied.

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That is your opinion, not fact! All references posted have indicated that these birds are raised like any other food animal and the oil is simply a by-product. Show us facts that prove more Emus are killed for oil (and the bird just discarded), and I will concede that you are correct.

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Soy protein has the same amino/protein nutritional value as meat without the fat and cholesterol that comes with it! And soy is the most versatile food. Some natural professional bodybuilders (http://www.veganfitness.net/ and http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/ ) and popular professional wrestlers are Vegan using all soy products as protein. It’s scientifically false to say that “you cannot get enough protein to balance the carbohydrate intake.”

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Actually, it does not have the same amino/protein value. It is the only complete vegetarian protein, yes, but the amino profile is not the same at all. It is also very low in bioavailability. At 74, it has one of the lowest biological values(BV). Nuts, seeds and veggies are off the scale low at 49. By contrast, egg white is the gold standard at 100.

"The BV of a dietary protein is the efficiency with which the protein deposits, the proper proportions and amounts of the essential aminio acids needed for anabolism. The important factor is not the amount of protein consumed, but the amount of dietary protein that is available to the body after ingestion.

Active vegans, who only consume 100% plant-based foods, are going to have a hard time building and repairing body tissue."

So, not only do vegetarians have a hard time sourcing lower carbohydrate (non-inflammatory) sources of protein, the ones they do use have to be consumed in larger quantities to equal the same grams of animal based protein as processed by the body.

(I have a list of sources if you wish them.)

Soy is among the top 10 human food allergins and there are hundreds of studies showing that over consumption of soy actually causes disease. Initial studies showed that moderate amouints promote health improvements, but soy intake is now very controversial.

Do a google search on "problems with soy" - you will go crazy with information overload!

Of course, it is possible, if you take supplememtal protein to build muscle while remaining vegan. It is just much harder. These athletes have made a moral choice, which is fine. If they are not allergic to soy, and drink lots of protein shakes, they can indeed maintain a healful protein:carbohydrate ratio.

The only protein sources I eat are very low in saturated fat and cholesterol. That is a vegan ploy, as you are referring to high fat meats, egg yolks etc.!

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You said that “I wouldn't look the way I did if I ate vegetarian” _How do you look? Better than: Angela Bassett, Alissia Silverston, Pamela Anderson, Sally Eastall, Olympics marathon runner?_ Just to name a few. Some of the most beautiful people in the world including athletes are Vegan!

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Some beautiful people are vegan, but most are not! So picking a few attractive vegetarians is not a valid argument! I could name 100 that are not. Does that prove a single scientific thing? BTW: Pam Anderson looks like crap and is a product of silicone and liposuction, not diet! (bad choice on that one).

And, yes, I do look good! Ask any who have seen my photos. I am fit, lean and very healthy looking. I look like an off season fitness competitor. I look 10-15 years younger than I am.

Would you like to post your picture as well?

(Sarcastic rant over! LOL)

But, you missed my entire point! I said that "I" could not look the way that I do on a vegetarian diet. I, like 70% of the population, am a fast oxidizer and would be sick and unhealthy with those food choices.

You should read some of the classic books on Biochemical Individuality, Metabolic Typing, etc.

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This is the most common perception of a vegetarian diet, which is completely false. Our ancestors ate a Paleolithic Diet which is mostly vegetarian including raw nuts, raw fruits and vegetables. Very sparingly, once a month or so, they eat organ meats. Without any of the refined food we eat now, so if you want the eat like our ancestors as we where designed to, then you have to follow a Paleolithic Diet!!

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All the sources that I have talk about lots of animal protein (hunters), along with tubers, roots, herbs, seeds, nuts, fruits and veggies (gatherers).

The foremost authoity on prehistoric (Paleolithic) diets, Dr. Boyd Eaton (antropologist and medical doctor), is very clear on our meat eating history. According to all his (and others) work, we hunted all large and small game, fish, fowl and eggs. While it is true that all the research shows that we wasted nothing (ate all the organ meats and brains), we certainly did not sit down to organ meats once a month. How silly! You suggest cavemen threw away a huge carcas full of meat to have a little organ meat treat once a month. OMG!

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It’s not the natural ways of our bodies to eat 90% of what we eat now days! A vegetarian diet is closer to our “natural way of our bodies” diet then most other diets out there including high protein/meat diets!

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I agree fully about the way "most people eat". I don't eat a single processed food. I eat a clean whole foods diet. I eat meat, beans, nuts, seeds, healthy oils, low glycemic fruits and veggies and take numerous supplements that support health and are anti-aging.

A vegetarian diet is not the closest way to how we should eat, although it may indeed be better than the typical American diet. It all depends on the food choices of the vegetarian. There are many overly processed high fat vegan foods as well....meatless patties, metless hot dogs, soy cheese etc....as well as the typical grains and white flour which cause disease.

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I respect others opinions and their lifestyle if that works for them, to each it own, but will not accept scientifically false comments about our physiology and that vegetarian diet is not natural and cannot be a balance diet; in fact it’s one of the healthiest ways of living.


_I have a MD and P.hD in Nutritional science with 15 years of experience at Cancer Recovery Institute in Switzerland. Most of our long term cancer recovery patients are the ones who adapted to a Vegan or raw foodist diet._

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It is your opinion that it is one of the healthiest ways to live. Thousands of scientists disgree with you. Your opinions are fine, but attacking my valid science is not!

Your background does not mean you are correct, although I have great respect what you do for a living (working with cancer patients). The second leading cause of death in the US is now the medical profession. Doctors kill more people than cancer! You have to research and take control of your own well being, if you want to be healthy in this society.

BTW: Not that it was ever relevant to my initial post, but I also have an advanced degree in chemistry/biochemistry and have worked with nutrition since 1990.

The debate between those who feel passionate about a lifestyle choice will continue as will the science behind it.

You have not debunked any science with your post, but have proven that you know little of the abundance of research that is out there disproving your "facts".

That said, this board is about skin care and diet/supplements that support skin care.

Moral arguments are best left somewhere else. It only disrupts the community.

There has never been an argument on this board until activists started this argument. If you have an issue with the Emu Oil, I suggest that you address your concerns to Skin Biology and Dr. Pickart.

Deb

Editing to add (wanted to double check my research first).

Pam Anderson has suffered numerous bouts of anorexia and bulemia which she openly admits.

Alicia Silverstone became vagan in 1999 while suffering from eating disorders, after she was attacked by the media as "fat" in "Batman and Robin".

This reflects the statistic quoted and reference by famous nutritional psychologist and author Julia Ross. She states that 50% of all anorexics are vegetarian and that there is a link between the unhelthy eating habits of both lifestyles.

While she applauds the values behind those that choose to be vegetarian, she warns that they have to be very careful as the diet does not naturally contain the essential nutrients for human health.

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Originally posted by AmyLou:
ROFLMAO...

Deb, I LOVE the way you laid out Bio_101. I was hollering "You go girl!" halfway through your first post. Priceless. And everything you said was right on the money. Boy, did s/he have it coming. And, while I respect the good manners of everyone here on this board, and I think it's great that everyone's so respectful of other opinions, I just wanted to say that it's my opinion that Bio_101 was nothing more than an internet TROLL, with no advanced degrees in anything except maybe outdated disinformation. I thought the soy question was resolved back in the late '90's, for example. If I had a quarter for every self-righteous vegan militant I'd run across in my career as a massage therapist who was spouting that "holier and healthier than thou vegetarian" tripe I'd be a rich woman.

And PLEASE don't anyone think that I am down on vegetarians...I AM NOT and respect the lifestyle 100%. I have several vegetarian friends, and I've even tried it myself. It's a very personal choice. But I listen to my body, and it literally makes me sick and tired if I go vegetarian for more than a couple of weeks. And I know there are a lot of people like me out there. A great deal of what vegans say to justify their lifestyle choice and attempt to foist it upon others is pure myth and outright fabrication that has take on a life of its own just from sheer repetition. I'm only saying all this because some seemed to be concerned about respecting Bio_101's feelings...and judging from the content and tone of her message, she's not worth it. She in all probability lied about her qualifications and showed a real pro (Deb) no respect at all. Thus, she revoked her claim to any that may have been accorded her.

And thanks to everyone who posted about emus! I learned so much from this one post!

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Originally posted by AmyLou:
ROFLMAO...

Deb, I LOVE the way you laid out Bio_101. I was hollering "You go girl!" halfway through your first post. Priceless. And everything you said was right on the money. Boy, did s/he have it coming. And, while I respect the good manners of everyone here on this board, and I think it's great that everyone's so respectful of other opinions, I just wanted to say that it's my opinion that Bio_101 was nothing more than an internet TROLL, with no advanced degrees in anything except maybe outdated disinformation.

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