Check out this post I read on another message board about how they obtain emu oil!!

"Ok this is my little information I got from a health store owner about emu oil. The males job is to lay on the eggs and hatch them. At this time his hormones are at their peak and that is when the oil is the best. So they kill the male and I guess take the eggs to the incubator. I wish I would have known this before I had ordered it. So from now on I am ordering camellia oil. It is supposed to be better and less oily."

I wouldn't belive everything someone posts.....Emu oil is a food by product.
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Emu Oil is a natural food by-product that is obtained from the body fat of the Emu bird. When an Emu bird’s healthy red meat is processed, the fat is separated and refined into an all natural oil. It is non-comedogenic so it will not clog your skin pores, and it is hypoallergenic.

It is a natural substance processed from farm raised Emus. These birds are raised commercially for meat, leather and oil production on special registered farms. The fat is rendered through a series of refining steps that sterilizes,deodorizes and homogenizes the oil for packaging ...
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Hope this helps. Food by product, harvested no different than pork lard.
Ana

P.S. I always wonder about someone that doesn't know Emu oil comes from an animal. It's EMU oil ...EMU for goodness sake! LOL! I like the "guess" part of the post.
"So they kill the male and I guess take the eggs to the incubator. I wish I would have known this before I had ordered it...."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBioTeam,

Hi Kathy,
Thanks for the information. I must admit I'm feeling guilty - I'd been meaning to ask Skin Biology about how they obtained Emu Oil and kept forgetting to do so - I ordered some for my daughter, even though she & I were wondering. Now I doubt she'll use it nor do I want her to if it turns out this is the collection method. Wish I'd asked first.

But, I suppose now I am asking - I hope Skin Biology will tell us from where they obtain their oil and, if it's as your information states, will they change oils or stop supplying it? Information requested from Skin Biology please. Thank you.

Hi Ana,
Your post hadn't appeared when I sent my first. Thank you, too, for the info. I suppose after hearing of the horrors of the collection of horse urine for Hormone Replacement Therapy, I wanted more information regarding Emu Oil. So...we can compare the style of Emu farms to commercial chicken farms? I'd still like some info, though, as I have to admit I buy eggs from free-range farmers, etc.

Thanks, again, both of you for you information.

I hope emus don't suffer the fate of chickens--misery. I also buy only free range eggs and only eat free-range chicken! I absoultely boycott the factory farmed eggs and chicken meat because the horrendous conditions of the poor animals. It's the worse of any farm animal, I think. And those poor mares--yes, that's criminal, especially when Premarin isn't even good for humans and not even bio-identical to our own estrogen!

Just my 2 cents...

Hello Everyone,

Make no mistake about animal based oil including Emu oil; it's simply NOT cruelty free! The primary source of rendered animals is slaughterhouses!! It’s not a question of rumor but a true reality.

Here a Quote I found:
"The pri-mary source of rendered animals is slaughterhouses, which provide the "inedible" parts of all animals killed for food.

Animal ingredients are used not because they are better than vegetable-derived or synthetic ingredients but rather because they are generally cheaper. Today's slaughterhouses must dispose of the byproducts of the slaughter of billions of animals every year and have found an easy and profitable solution in selling them to food and cosmetics manufacturers."

I saw a post from Skin Biology that mention that no Emu was killed for the Oil but the animal must be DEAD to get the oil out of it, so by using this oil we contribute to Emu farming. If understand this right, the oil doesn't come from their feathers nor other process while the animal is still alive.

In my opinion I cannot in good conscience use oil that I know many animals has suffer and was killed for selfish needs and vanity! Beside I disdain it, just the thought of having oil coming from the insides organs/meat of an animal applied to my skin make my stomach turn.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBiologyWebmaster,

Just an outline of the guidlines on emu farms etc. In the more Northern parts of Australia the Emu is no different than a chicken or cow is to other cultures. But I do understand and respect others opinions on this matter. The emu farms that I have seen have been free range if thats of any help.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBiologyWebmaster,

Thank you, Kathrynn, for your information about emu farms. It is very reassuring to hear from someone in Australia that, to your knowledge, most if not all of the emu farms are free-range.

Like many humans, I eat meat and use animal products in my daily life (for example, I wear leather boots) and, while I don't wear fur (wouldn't even if I could afford to!), I truly believe that life on the earth has evolved in symbiosis. As Debbie said, humans are natural omnivores. That said, commercial farming and SOME of the practices used on those farms that have recently come to light have given me pause and made me think of the choices I have as to where I spend my money (such as buying only free-range products, etc). It is reassuring to know that the emu farms in Australia are as humane as possible and that money spent on Emu oil most likely is not supporting a system whereby the animals are ill-treated and/or shot full of antibiotics, hormones, and other things that have negative effects both on the animals and the humans that ingest them!

As I mentioned in an earlier post to this thread, I spoke with my daughter (the one who is using the Emu oil) about Emu farms. Using information from this thread, she and I compared the practices of Emu farms to other commercial farming operations. Our decision reflects only our feelings about the world and our place in it and does not mean that our decision would be the one reached by anyone else. She decided to use the Emu oil, just as she uses leather and eats meat. Her thought, I believe, and mine is that life is symbioisis - and that it is nice to have information in order to choose which farms we support.

Thanks everyone for the chance to talk about this issue.
Jana

Thats ok just thought the information would be helpful.Take care all

I must clear up some of the un-founded comments about cruelty free cosmetics and vegetarian diet. This post is to clarify and give out proper information about nutrition which is scientifically documented by some of the best universities around the world.

It’s un professional and unethical to give out information that is false to discourage a diet and lifestyle they one do not agree with!!

In response to:
“Since the animals are being killed for reasons other than the oil, I don't feel it is vanity over cruelty. The oil would just be wasted.”

It's the same as supporting cosmetics that are tested on poor animals that are tortured for no reason except our vanity. By using these products you are contributing to the farming of Emu bird, which is being part of the reason these animals are killed! If there’s a demand for a product, it must be supplied.

In response to:
“I wouldn't look the way I did if I ate vegetarian, as you cannot get enough protein to balance the carbohydrate intake.”

Soy protein has the same amino/protein nutritional value as meat without the fat and cholesterol that comes with it! And soy is the most versatile food. Some natural professional bodybuilders (http://www.veganfitness.net/ and http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/ ) and popular professional wrestlers are Vegan using all soy products as protein. It’s scientifically false to say that “you cannot get enough protein to balance the carbohydrate intake.”

You said that “I wouldn't look the way I did if I ate vegetarian” How do you look? Better than: Angela Bassett, Alissia Silverston, Pamela Anderson, Sally Eastall, Olympics marathon runner? Just to name a few. Some of the most beautiful people in the world including athletes are Vegan!

In response to:
“Our ancestors ate animal protein and we are designed to eat animal protein.”

This is the most common perception of a vegetarian diet, which is completely false. Our ancestors ate a Paleolithic Diet which is mostly vegetarian including raw nuts, raw fruits and vegetables. Very sparingly, once a month or so, they eat organ meats. Without any of the refined food we eat now, so if you want the eat like our ancestors as we where designed to, then you have to follow a Paleolithic Diet!!

In response to:
“You can make a moral choice not to, but it is not the natural way of our bodies.”

It’s not the natural ways of our bodies to eat 90% of what we eat now days! A vegetarian diet is closer to our “natural way of our bodies” diet then most other diets out there including high protein/meat diets!

I respect others opinions and their lifestyle if that works for them, to each it own, but will not accept scientifically false comments about our physiology and that vegetarian diet is not natural and cannot be a balance diet; in fact it’s one of the healthiest ways of living.


I have a MD and P.hD in Nutritional science with 15 years of experience at Cancer Recovery Institute in Switzerland. Most of our long term cancer recovery patients are the ones who adapted to a Vegan or raw foodist diet.

quote:

Originally posted by DebbieNIR:
Well, I think it is awesome and it is better for your skin than that derived from vegetable sources as it is more compatible. It is certainly not cheap!

You can have your moral reasons for not using it (we all should respect each other for those choices.), but I would not try to pin a reason that is not true on Dr. Pickarts choice of using it to improve the look of the skin.

Since the animals are being killed for reasons other than the oil, I don't feel it is vanity over cruelty. The oil would just be wasted.

I don't support any cosmetics that are tested on poor animals that are tortured for no reason except our vanity.

I am no vegetarian either though. I wouldn't look the way I did if I ate vegetarian, as you cannot get enough protein to balance the carbohydrate intake. Our ansestors ate animal protein and we are designed to eat animal protein.

You can make a moral choice not to, but it is not the natural way of our bodies.

So we can just agree to disagree.

Deb

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skin Biology,

Hi Bio_101 & Deb,

Welcome to the forum Bio. It's very good to get different opinions even though I don't really approve of the way you posted yours. That said, I really want to thank you for making Deb this mad because, as a result, we got a lot of information that we would not have received otherwise!! LOL (at least not in this forum)

Deb, as always, I am very grateful for having you in here and love reading your posts. Even though I may not always agree with you (haven't made up my mind about all these supplements) I do respect your professionalism....and how respectful you are when it comes to the beliefs of others.

Just on a side note - if anyone cares.

Emus are most NORMALLY killed BEFORE being bred - more cost effective that way, as you don't need to feed them through an entire growth season, to let them grow bigger and get fatter. Though they do produce more fat at nesting time, few farmers are willing to spend the extra on housing, feeds, supplements, vaccines, parisite control etc, just for that reason.

Breeding them and pairing them is a difficult job, the birds can be mean and testy, and many farms don't like to handle that directly if possible, and you have to feed them a more expensive foods, suppliments, to convert to eggs etc. The incubaters, and labor involved with a breeding operation is very expensive, and labor intensive. (eggs must be checked all night long and through the day, they need to stay at the perfect humidity, heat level, etc or they all die -disease etc. is a big concern as well - its not easy), and is Something Most meat EMU farms will not do unless they have a breeding operation, with enough willing laborers. Which many don't. (just like chickens for the breeding programs, or egg laying programs are different and more expensive operations then the fryer farms)

Much cheaper to do a standard meat source farm. You get a much faster turnover, and feeds, houseing etc. are all cheeper. Faster, and more secure profit margin.

However IF the birds are kept for breeding, they are often killed shortly after egg laying on some birds, but the eggs are incubated - not because the parents were killed. Rather because emu eggs are "expensive" and NO farmer wants to risk leaving them in the nest to hatch - to many can get crushed, or die from improper incubation, disease, rats, parasites, etc. So even when the farmer keeps the parents alive (because they are good breeders) the eggs are STILL removed to an incubator, because you get a higher hatch rate, with less disease. Again more cost effective. (both sexes are used for oil)

Some farms also prefere to keep the bird through one breeding season, slaughtering them, just after breeding, after they have regained their fat stores. Because older more mature birds produce larger amounts of a better quality fat, with more antioxidants etc. But this would only be farms that are concerned with the quality of the oils. (The quality can vary from farm to farm)

Most breeding operations don't kill off their birds until they have been bred a few years, because it makes no sense to kill all your breeders and then be forced to wait for new ones to grow to adulthood again. As the birds get older they lay larger and larger clutches, so breeders that are a few years old, are actually more cost effective. Younger breeders and first time breeders lay the least amount of eggs.

So though young birds are used, many of the older birds are kept until they are no longer productive breeders.

Emus lay 20 to 50 eggs at a time, but only one a day. The parents do not eat the entire laying season, so they loose fat and condition every single day.

Neither parent can be slaughtered BEFORE all eggs are laid, so the males would need to sit and wait at least 20 days, possibly upto 50 days, if you harvest them right away. But they would already be lower in fat reserves, because of this wait.

So cost wise its better to slaghter before breeding or after they have gained some fat back.

And the fat IS an excess from the meat industry. oz for oz, once costs are figured in, raising Emus for fat only, would be a poor resource. Because when you figure in feed costs, housing, supplements, shots, labor, and costs of rendering - you would probably not break even from fat sales only. The meat is the main income maker, with the least amount of cost from the farmers standpoint. The fat, and leather, is a by product. Much like pork production - the meat is the main income maker, the lard and leather is a by product.

I have close friends who are big in to EMU farming, and the breeding operations.

Personally I am not a vegitarian, and make a moral choice not to be, which I dont want to discuss here, as that is not the purpose of this board. But for those who are meat free by choice, then EMU oil is probably not a choice they will be happy with.
However there are other oils that work nicely also. Jojoba is just one example, that I have had good results with. It works differently then Emu, but does have some similuar benifits, and is all plant based.

I use both personally, because each has different uses for me, that other oils dont fulfill.

Also the other oils sold by SB, are an effective alternative. They may not work precisely like the Emu, but will still be benificial.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tangal,

Deb, I want to add that even though I'm not sure about all these supplements, I am anxiously awayting your supplement list It is going to be my starting point when I decide which supplements to incorporporate into my diet!!

Hi Deb,

What an interesting and electric post I woke up to this morning! That seemed to come right out of left field in our Healthy Skin forum but isn't that part of what makes it great? Anyway, I LOVE your posts and appreciate your indepth knowledge and the fact that you share your opinions with us as well. We all do. Do you ever SLEEP? I don't know how you do it girl! I am most curious over the HA debate. I feel so drawn to using it, however I am waiting, like a lot of us, for more info. I love, love, love the lactic acid. I use the 10% every night and the 40% peel once a week. I read in one of your posts that you break out slightly after using it but they go away quickly. That has been my experience as well. The small pimples don't leave red marks or any signs that they were there so I will continue to enjoy the benefits. Thanks alot for everything you do.

Pam

Thanks Tangal for that extra information and of course to Debbie. I learn something new every day on this forum. If you want to know more about the dietary habits of cavemen take a flight to Australia and I'll introduce you to my neighbour Barry

Hey Kathrynn,

That was very funny...I almost choked on my coffee. Thank you!

Pam

Hi Deb,

Actually I haven't really made up my mind about supplements. Your list is actually going to be my starting point when I decide which to take (I am going to take some). I can not be totally sure about making the right choices since there seems to be very controversial opinions about differend kind of supplements and the scientific data are often inconsistent. Still I am going to make those choices. If I will make wrong choices, it's going to be my mistake and noone elses. So I have to try to make as informed decision as possible.

I do value your knowledge, which I believe is extensive and well founded, and I am probably going to pick your brain once I start looking into different kind of supplements.

Still, I hope I can balance my diet properly without too much supplementation since I believe it is optimal that way. I am a little nervous about the long term effect of supplements since I somehow feel that we just don't know enough.

As an example of things I will be looking into is wheatgrass and barleygrass. I've read about juices from wheatgrass and barley grass and their health benefits. I have not looked into any data on that but am hoping that I can find a more natural way than supplements, at least to some extent, and am therefore going to look at that as well.

The only supplements I have decided to take is ALA, CoQ10 and acetyl L-carnitine.

Dear Kat,

Just a little suggestion since you are looking for a good supplement. Why not take a look at Life Pak, a comprehensive supplements of multivitamin, mineral and antioxidants from Pharmanex? It comes from a trusted source company and the product has been proven by scientific research to ensure they have optimum results. You can try to log on to www.nuskin.com website to search for the information on this supplements.

Definitely, this supplement is not focus on skin, however, generally if your body has enough nutrients to ensure it works properly, your skin will look better.

Hi FC1233,

Someone has actually pointed that out to me Not here in the forum though. I will look at that as well. It has a lot of the supplements I am going to be looking into but not all.

Those who have been promoting this product here in Iceland make a test on ppl. to see the rate of antioxidants (I think...I've only heard a little bit about it so I'm not sure about how this test works. You probably do.) I know someone who had this test made on him, and those who did the test were actually very surprised to see how extremely well he scored. He takes no supplements but drinks wheat grass juice almost every day.

Dear KathyC and ALL:

Due to the fact that emu oil is biochemically very similar to human skin oil (and has a number of other healthful factors for human skin), many have seen good results using this oil.

However, we deeply respect the consciences and opinions of our clients and would recommend that if using Emu Oil disturbs your conscience try using Squalane Oil (plant derived) or another moisturizing oil of your preference.

-Skin Biology