Skin Biology really is against any kind of chemical sunscreen because of the possibilty of it causing cancer, but if you don't protect your skin you can get skin cancer and the best sunscreens contain chemicals. I just don't understand.

You can get a lot of UVA rays just by going out side for a few minutes or sitting by a window. It is there until the sun goes down. What is a person to do????

Hi Deb,

I think this is the same Dr. Mercola who has all those erroneous things to say about distilled water. Check this out:

http://www.mercola.com/article/water.htm

He says:
"Distilled water should also be avoided because it has the wrong ionization, pH, polarization and oxidation potentials, and can drain your body of necessary minerals. It has been tied to hair loss, which is often associated with certain mineral deficiencies."

Can we believe anything this man says?? Please don't misunderstand, I'm all for moderate sun bathing but this guy is beginning to give me the creeps...

Belle

Hi Deb,

Now I'm LMAO! Very good - yes, that was indeed clear as mud! I just couldn't resist sending that to you in light of the discussions on other threads. The moment I read Mercola a light went off in my head, as I've been typing his name on various posts - pleading for clarification from the person who posted the link for scientific proof to those alarming water claims - and presto! I got nothing!

I admire the way you seem to be so forgiving and willing to accept that people such as Mercola may have some valid points even if they talk complete rubbish on other subjects. Sadly, I'm not so good at that - once they blow it as badly as he did with statements such as hairloss from pure H2O !!! - I'm still trying to get over that one! - I'm afraid I can't believe a word that comes out of their mouth. It's a bit harsh I know but I can't help it...

Still can't decide what to get for my flat in terms of a water purifier, distiller, etc.

All the best,
Belle

I am using the Anna Bellina sunscreen and love it. Apparently, the implied SPF is about 22. However, I have been told that if it's non-micronized and does not leave much of a white cast on skin (which is does not), then it doesn't have enough concentration of physical suncreens. It may be good enough for light exposures, against burning, but maybe not enough for stronger sun. Even if a person is not in the direct strong sun, if it doesn't have enough zinc oxide, it doesn't block much of the longer wave UVA which destroy collagen and damage skin slowly over time, even with incidental exposures. As far as health, it's not the UVA that interacts with skin to make Vitamin D, but the UVB which is not present all the time. UVB is blocked by clouds, but UVA is not. If you are interested in having the best skin you can and preventing collagen loss as much as you can, then you would be better off with a sunscreen that blocks more UVA.

As I say, I am using the Anna Bellina sunscreen and love the way it goes on, but I am on the fence about it.

KathyC

Hi guys,

Diane: I use Day Cover for the 'walking around outside' type of exposure and I really like it. However, I have to admit that if I'm doing an activity that requires prolonged exposure, such as skiing, I still use the OTC SPF 50+ types. I'm still searching for the perfect sunscreen (strong SPF or the equivalent of, non-micronized Titanium Dioxide, non-chemical) but I think it's a bit like the search for the Holy Grail - LOL!! I asked Diana Yvonne what sunscreen she uses for extended sun exposure and she said Anthelios Extreme Fluide, but I'm pretty sure this is the 'chemical' type. I can't really use the Titanium Dioxide she offers, as it's too drying for me but it might work for you.

Deb: When you mentioned the 'Nair in the distilled water' I let out a howling laugh!! Made my morning - excellent. Mercola is barking mad! I have really enjoyed our little exchange!

Kathy: Do you have oily or dry skin? I'm curious because I was thinking of trying the Anna Bellina but I wont be able to use it if it's not moisturizing. My skin is VERY dry.

Belle

Hi Belle, I have dry skin and the Anna Bellina feels great! I'm sure you'll love it. My concern with it is simply how much protection I am really getting with it. If only we could find "THE" perfect sunscreen!!

KathyC

Diane,

I wouldn't say the "best" sunscreens contain chemicals. There are plenty good ones out there that contain only titanium or zinc oxide. Total Block maes "COTZ", a non-chemical sunscreen with an SPF of 58! If you search the skin care site, you can find loads of physical sunscreen products that give excellent protection with no chemicals. Although a bit pricey, Peter Thomas Roth makes some that are actually quite light in texture for the face.

Of course, these are all still micronized, but it is better than using chemicals, IMO. In addition to the potential cancer, there was a study showing chemical sunscreens to be an endocrine disrupter!

Belle,

Are you putting the DY sunscreen over emu? I do that on my neck and it is not as drying that way. But I have oily skin, so maybe I don't notice it! (BTW, I thought the same thing about Mercola when I saw Deb's post, lol!)

Kathy C,

I really like the AB sunscreen, too. Like you, I'm conerned how effective it really is. If it micronized, it would still be more effective (probably) against UVA than DY's because of having zinc in it.

I think I posted on another thread about Dr. Hashuaka (sp??) sunscreen. A bit pricy, BUT they encapsulate the micronized titanium with aluminun in a particle size too large to absorb into the skin. So neither the aluminum nor the titanium is being absorbed. I think this might eliminate the free radical problem that has Dr. Pickart against micronized sunscreens? Unfortunately, there is no zinc for those higer nasty UVA rays and this stuff is also very oily, so I could never wear it on my face, but someone with dry skin might like it.

Deb,

Regarding your statement: "He does not believe that sunlight causes cancer when you use a physical sunscreen and moderate your exposure. He also believes that our inner biochemistry plays a large part in how we react to radiation hitting our skin."

I am still not won over yet, but being open minded! So it is his opinion (and yours) that our inner biochemistry plays a huge part in getting skin sun damage as well? I still have nightmares about those people I saw in South America who had obviously spent a lifetime in the sun! Of course, I doubt there diets were the best or that they were taking supplements!

I cannot use day cover, but I DO apply an emulsion of emu/super cp serum (thanks for telling me about that!). I also take lots of internal antioxidants, of course! I am still wearing makeup with SPF 20 from micronized zinc and titanium, but plan to order some mineral makeup samples soon. Dr. Pickart has said those are very safe for the skin.

Kathleen

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skin Biology,

quote:

Originally posted by Kathleen:
Total Block maes "COTZ", a non-chemical sunscreen with an SPF of 58!

Hi Kathleen,

Where can you buy this COTZ? I am in Canada. Can I get it online? I'd like to check it out a bit more. Thanks.

KathyC

For anyone interested, the following was copied and pasted from Medscape (you would have to register to get access). This is some of the latest research on UVA and sunscreen and discussed at the American Academy of Dermatology.

If you scroll down the bottom there intersting info on types of sunscreens and how well they protect. As you can see, they tested top 6 sunscreens and found the worst performers were 'physical only' sunscreens. This article is not by an independent company or doctor, but from a taken from several cited research (there are only some posted references at the bottom but there are many more). So it was peer reviewed and scientific, not intended to sell any particular product.
.........................................

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBiologyWebmaster,

Hi Deb,

While I realize that there are many people who have varying opinions on usage of sunscreens, I think it is important to weigh both sides so that people can make their own informed decision. The information I have posted here comes from a woman on a different message board who I have invited here to discuss sunscreens for those interested. She is very well read and does a lot of research into the sun, its effects, sunscreens, skin damage from the sun, etc., and I hope she decides to come over here and offer some help. Sunscreen is such a difficult one to figure out!

KathyC

quote:

Originally posted by Kathleen:
Diane,

I wouldn't say the "best" sunscreens contain chemicals. There are plenty good ones out there that contain only titanium or zinc oxide. Total Block maes "COTZ", a non-chemical sunscreen with an SPF of 58!

Belle,

Are you putting the DY sunscreen over emu? I do that on my neck and it is not as drying that way. But I have oily skin, so maybe I don't notice it! (BTW, I thought the same thing about Mercola when I saw Deb's post, lol!)

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen!

I got very excited when I read your info on COTZ so I immediately went to the web site! Not bad! Thanks for that Kathleen!!

And no, I am not putting the DY sunscreen over Emu. Diana advised me not to get it for my skin type and recommended Day Cover instead for me. Actually, even Day Cover (over Emu) feels a bit tight towards the middle of the day.

I really like the sound of COTZ - have you used it? Is it drying?

Thanks! Belle

Thank you everyone for all the advise.

Hi Kathy,

COTZ is available on tons of online stores. Ones that come readily to mind include www.dermadoctor.com , www.skincarerx.com and
www.dermstore.com

I am pretty sure dermadoctor ships to Canada and the others probably do as well.

The only thing that worries me is whether this stuff would make my face break out. Like Belle, I, too, am also looking for a sunscreen for skiing, which is particularly hard because your face mufflers and such (I usually pull it up over my mouth) tend to rub on your face. I am worried that something like AB or DY's sunscreens will be wiped right off. I have a full face mask, but it is hard for me to breathe with it on and it bugs me.

quote:

Originally posted by DebbieNIR:
ROTFLMAO

Not the hair loss! You had to mention the hair loss.....

Maybe someone spiked his distilled water with Nair??????

Deb

You girls may want to be a little more delicate. I don't think that Dr. Pickart has all his hair, either. It's unkind.

Belle,

Yes, I've used COTZ and no, I did not find it drying. It is thick and heavy and a bit greasy. I was worried it would make me break out, but since you are dry, there is probably no problem! The nice thing is that the places I bought it from allow returns if you don't like it, so you could try it to see.

Peter Thomas Roth does make some pretty nice chemical-free sunscreens, too, that are quite light. They would spread better I think but do not have the same high SPF and maybe they are TOO light for you.

Kathy C,

I wish the study said *why* physical sunscreens were the worst performers. They did mention not applying enough. I personally think the problem with physical sunscreens is that they sit on the skin and more likely to be rubbed or sweated off. My understanding is that the chemical sunscreens absorb into your skin so the protection stays better. Maybe my understanding is not correct. I have used titanium only sunscreen on my hands for several years (Neutrogena) and my hands never get an ounce of color no matter how much I drive, so it does work. I also know that if I get any water on my hands, they turn all white and the sunscreen is sort of floating on them!

Deb,

I totally understand about the antioxidant and glycation thing as UV rays do nothing more (I think) than create free radicals and those free radicals are what age your skin.

I posted on another, but no one has replied yet, regarding HOW to get this moderate amount of sunlight? I do have to keep my face protected b/c of the hyperpigmentation. I do not spend much time outdoors, but I do drive an hour 5 days a week. Still, only my arms, neck and hands get any sun (and they are usually covered in sunscreen.) Would I get enough "moderate" sunlight to apply Suntanning Lotion (or Day Cover) to my neck, arms and hands? Or does your whole body need sun? Also, I realize UVB does not come through glass.

HEY, what is this about an email regarding AB?? I read somewhere else you sent Parasol to a lab for testing. I would be EXTREMELY interested in that!

Kathleen

Hi Saint Ex,

Deb is absolutely right - our exchange was in no way a comment of hairloss itself, balding, or people who are bald. What we were laughing at was that Dr. Mercola was claiming that drinking distilled water has been tied to hair loss. Neither one of us could understand how pure H2O with nothing in it can lead to hair loss!

I would never make fun of anyone with this problem - I don't make fun of people. Actually, I'm suffering from hair loss so I'm so sympathetic to this problem as well. I'm terrified and don't understand why it's happening - it's not very noticeable to others but believe me it's definitely happening. I've also added supplements to help and am about to buy a Chlorine Shower Filter. As you can see I'm pretty desperate to try just about everything! I've never had thick hair - my hair has always been baby fine but I always had a lot of it so much so that hairdressers would always comment - 'You have loads of it' - when I complained that I had fine hair. They don't say that now... This is not something most of us girls think we're going to need to cope with (cellulite, wrinkles, yes! but hairloss???).

Like Deb - I also would never judge anyone on physical traits.

Hope that clears things up - I hate to think anyone on the forum (or anywhere!) would think I was the type of person that made fun of others or judged people ....

Belle

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skin Biology,

quote:

Originally posted by Kathleen:
Peter Thomas Roth does make some pretty nice chemical-free sunscreens, too, that are quite light. They would spread better I think but do not have the same high SPF and maybe they are TOO light for you.

Kathleen, how do I find this Peter Thomas Roth sunscreen? I would like to check it out as well. Thanks!

KathyC

quote:

Originally posted by Belle:
I'm suffering from hair loss so I'm so sympathetic to this problem as well. I'm terrified and don't understand why it's happening - it's not very noticeable to others but believe me it's definitely happening. I've also added supplements to help and am about to buy a Chlorine Shower Filter. As you can see I'm pretty desperate to try just about everything! I've never had thick hair - my hair has always been baby fine but I always had a lot of it so much so that hairdressers would always comment - 'You have loads of it' - when I complained that I had fine hair. They don't say that now... This is not something most of us girls think we're going to need to cope with (cellulite, wrinkles, yes! but hairloss???).

Belle

Hi Belle,

Thought I'd throw this out for you - I can't remember your age, if you've ever posted it and I ever knew it! But my experience a few years ago - I went into very very early menopause. Around age 41 the docs were telling me I was already in it. By 46, it was full blown menopause and I started taking PremPro. I took it for about three years. Then, for reasons of my own, I stopped. When I first took it, my hair began coming out in clumps while I was in the shower - huge clumps. I have always had a lot of hair and rec'd comments from hair stylists much as you have, about the amount of hair, how thick, etc. But, while on PremPro, my hair was much thinner, esp. aroung the temples and sides of my head. Although it was mostly only noticable to me, I hated it. Since I stopped taking PremPro, and later, Premarin, my hair has once again thickened. My hairdresser now always comments on how thick my hair is (not the same stylist from while my hair was thinner)and she says things like, "Gee, I always forget how long it takes to do your hair - blow drying alone takes an hour!" She teases me quite a bit and I try to tip her well! (I don't get my hair done very often, not a lot of extra funds around my house, LOL.) I'm 51 now, will be 52 in May.

I have no idea if this might be helpful to you and I don't mean for this thread to become a discussion of HRT. I believe Dr. Pickart is an advocate of some types of HRT and I also believe that, done right, it can be a positive. My HRT wasn't done "right," though. I'm going to post another, different photo of myself on the "Forum Friends" thread from about a little over a year ago, one which shows my hair much as it looks now.

Again, just a thought for you, of my experience. Hair loss was such a blow for me, so I empathize with you. My very best wishes to you,

Jana

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Hello Jana!

Thank you so much for your post! It helps a lot to hear about other's experiences. I'm 40 and I REALLY hope I'm not going through very early menopause. My mother didn't go through it till her mid 50s and hardly noticed (she's phenomenal) - is timing hereditary?

Gosh though - you sure got me thinking... Maybe I should get the doctor to give me a hormone test? Jana, did you get the hairloss once you were on the medication or before you started taking it?

Belle

While looking up the dermadoctor site, I found this which might be purrrrfect for my dry skin. Deb or anyone, do you have any thoughts about the ingredients?



KathyC

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