Hi everyone,

I just returned from Las Vegas and it was quite sunny there compared to where I live. The first day I applied my AB Sunscreen and we were outside walking the strip for most of the day. Well, guess who got a sunburn!! So, I have to think that this sunscreen does not have a high enough SPF for direct sunlight over a period of several hours. Back to the search for the perfect summer time sunscreen!! It would appear I'll have to go back to the chemical ones.

KathyC

P.S. Deb, results on the test yet?

Were you using the Parasol sunscreen? or something else? I have Parasol but since it has an inferred spf of 15 I wouldn't think any 15 would handle much sun. Isn't the rating something like: a protection of 15 minutes longer than it would normally take your skin to burn?

Ducky, yes, I was using the Parasol sunscreen which was represented to me as non-chemical, non-micronized with an implied SPF of about 15-25 but probably somewhere around SPF 22. My own test in Vegas was enough to prove to me that it is nowhere near what was represented. The sunscreen I ended up using for the remainder of my holiday was Neutrogena dry touch sunblock SPF30 which I used all last summer and which I loved. It protected me in our 90-100 degree summers without any problems here in our hot Okanagan weather. I only bought the AB Parasol because I wanted something non-chemical and non-micronized which is the type of sunscreen recommended by Dr. Pickart, but which I am convinced does not exist!! It was only about 75-78 degrees in Vegas and I wasn't in the direct sunlight at all times during the day, but for perhaps 30 minutes at a time every couple of hours. In any event, my AB Parasol is going in the garbage.

Deb, thanks for the report on the sunscreen. As I said, my own experiment (albeit an unintended one ) was enough proof for me.

I will shoot an email off to you when I get a chance (back to work when I feel like I need a rest from a very exhausting weekend!)

My DY package was sitting in my mailbox when I arrived home, so must go unpack it!

KathyC

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idelle Musiek,

For what it's worth... I've been using Murad Oil-free Tinted Sunblock SPF 15 for a good while now, before starting with the Skin Bio products, and have rather liked it. I'm glad to say it contains only Titanium Dioxide, and none of the other icky chemical sunscreens. I also like the fact that it is tinted, so this overcomes the whiteness of the TD.

I've also ordered some of the Day Cover to get some more copper peptides going on during the day (I'm just doing the CP Serum at night at this point). I just reserve my heavy duty, chemical laden SPF 45 for the long exposures... or else keep under cover and wear a bee keeper's outfit or something.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idelle Musiek,

Hi Lilu,

That's great and thanks for the link. I have been wondering about it myself. I often find the Murad product ingredients not so hot or natural as they are marketed to be.

Oops, looking at the ingredients...
I don't know all the harmful stuff, but there are the vitamin C and Triethanolamine. The vitamin C may get inactivated by the copper peptides. Triethanolamine and DEA-related ingredients have been proven in 1998 by the National Toxicology Program to have carcinogenic effects in laboratory animals but no established link in humans. I'll have to search for an update unless someone knows the latest on Triethanolamine.

I figured that with an ingredient list that long there would be something in there that was potentially harmful. I already knew that Murad doesn't qualify at all as a "natural" line of products, but does have a good reputation for general high quality and effectiveness, at least compared to the gamut you find in commercial skin care products.
As far as sunscreen goes, it's just so hard to find something that both performs well AND has only good ingredients.

Deb, you do make a good point. Did you happen to look at the ingredient list and see anyting that would be truly concerning? I saw in the other post a mention of Lavera sunscreen products, and those seemed promising.

I'm very fair and sun sensitive, and many of my skin issues today are due to too much incidental exposure. I absolutely have to wear a good sunscreen anytime I go outside. Thesse posts have been helpfule, even if frustating when you realize how few really good choices are available.

Thanks again all.
Lilu

I agree with Dr. Pickart and personally don't believe that conclusions made from animal models necessary transfer to humans.

However, when topical carcenogic effect is proven in animal models, it is significant for cosmetics. It may not be outlawed but it may be restricted to certain concentration.

I know I read an update on Triethoalmine. It is also in one of my proactiv products unfortunately.

Thanks Deb and JW!

Deb:

quote:

I am careful to heed the warning of keeping vitamin C 12 hours from copper peptides, just to be safe. So, I would likely chose a sunscreen that did not contain vitamin C, if I was using copper at all during the day. You are currently not doing this but may at some point.

Why did I have the impression that the vitamin C issues was only that the benefits of the C are negated by the copper? I didn't reaize there were any interaction concerns. What are they?

quote:

Aso, since this product has only 5.5 % titanium dioxide, and an SPF of 15, why not use Skin Biology's Daycover? This would provide both titanium dioxide with some copper for good measure.

I guess you missed the line in my first post where I mentioned I'd just order some. Maybe I'll experiment with mixing in some of the minerals makeup I seen others talking about and create my own tinted sunscreen.
JW, please do let me know if you find that information on the Triethoalmine. I'd certainly prefer to stay away from such ingredients if I have a choice.

Lilu

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idelle Musiek,

Thanks JW. I really appreciate the time you took to look up this information. I think I'm going to use up what and then switch to the Daycover for everyday, incidental sun exposure. For more prolonged exposure I need to find something else anyway, as the Murad was only SPF 15. In another thread there were two other higher SPF, non-chemical sunscreens, so perhaps I'll try one of those. Thanks again.

Deb,

I remember learning about this facet of "science" and being mad! I believe they did the same thing with saccahrin (sp?).

Thanks for posting this.

Kathleen

Kathy C-

I haven't and won't post on the forum for at least a while, but I did want to clarify the Anna Bellina sunscreen issue with you.

The product was tested (as an anonymous agent, and by a group of students as a project) and it contains what it claims as far as I know.

The problem with this product, and I stated this several times previously, is that the consistency is thin - there are no thickeners or binders in the product. Because it's a physical block-type sunscreen, you would need to build up enough product to create a good layer. It's hard to do with this one.

I also stated that I would not personally use it in strong sun, because it is too runny and thin. It also beads off when you add more.

So, basically, I think that it's "safe", but not necessarily effective. I did say that I would use my Vanicream 35 in strong sun.

I use the Anna Bellina on days when I want a little extra coverage over my Day Cover (which I use every single day.) As the sun gets stronger, I will no doubt wear a hat (gloves wouldn't be a bad idea for me either, as my hands are starting to show radical improvement since faithfully using copper peptides on them with lactic acid. But I'll probably pass on the gloves...)

I hope that that helps a little. I'm sorry about your sunburn, but I did warn about the consistency. At some point, I just could not follow up the posts anymore.

Be well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idelle Musiek,