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Water Retention :( Login/Join
 
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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One of the real problems I have with my skin is water retention.

My weight goes up and down five or six pounds for no apparent reason. Some days I wake up and my face is puffy and I've gained one, two, or even three pounds. Red Face I don't eat much sodium (I've never liked salt too much) and I try to minimize grains and dairy, though I really love cheese. My weakness is chocolate and chocolate cake, but I don't notice a link between chocolate consumption and water retention. Are there foods or vitamins that can help me with this? I just hate it and it makes me feel horrible. On the "puffy" days I just want to stick a bag on my head Eeker

I recently had my kidneys checked just to be sure, but everything is "normal." I hate this. Any suggestions, tips, advice WELCOMED.


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Registered: 27 November 2004
Posts: 855
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Oh my, I had horrible water retention for a long time and I also avoid salt like the plague. Then, gee, I found out it is a symptom of thyroid and female hormone imbalance. Also of adrenal hormone problems as the adrenals make hormones that regulate water balance in the body.

Oddly, those with adrenal problems need salt! The body wants salt, so will hang onto the water in order to keep the salt. I actually have to eat salt now. THAT was hard to get used to.

When they put me on thyroid meds, my adrenals crashed and I blew up BIG time! Eating salt made me lose water, believe it or not.

Progesterone is a natural diuretic. Once I started that and adrenal supplements, most of my problems with edema went away. (I was sleeping with my feet propped up every night!)

I still have a time in hot weather, though. We just moved to New Mexico and the heat is making me swell up. But it happens to lots of "normal" people, too, so I'm not quite sure what to do about this.

However, I'm just noting my own experience. You need to get all these things checked before just trying any of these remedies.

And as I always say, ask to see your lab resultsd and don't take the doc's word you're "normal" until you see those values yourself!

HTH.
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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Hmmm. I think that it's all hormones with me. I go up and down like a yoyo without making any changes at all in my diet. Drives me nuts.
Right now I'm in "diuretic phase" and i'm drained. Maybe I should have some hormone tests run though I'm not sure that I'll get treatment (and my insurance co. will make me pay for the tests out of pocket. Sly ones Wink


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Registered: 27 November 2004
Posts: 855
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Oh, yes, I have to pay for my own tests now. GRHHH. But I posted elsewhere I go to www.healthcheckusa.com for blood work. It is not bad and I can get you a 10% discount on thyroid tests if you're interested.

I get other hormones checked from saliva at ZRT Labs. You can get it cheaper by ordering the test kit from www.beyond-a-century.com. They sell a 2-hormone test kit for $50 instead of the $60 ZRT charges. Smiler I test my estrogen and progesterone there and DHEA-S when I want to see how it's doing every so often.

Water retention is a tough one, don't I know! But I know enough about myself to sort of figure it out sometimes. Like I can tell now that my body needs more progesterone cream if I'm really blowing up. Or that I need to eat more salt. (Oddly, people with low adrenal reserve need MORE salt for water problems, not less! Of course, most people don't have low adrenal reserve, so this wouldn't apply.)

And I found a GREAT natural diuretic: Herburetic (sp??) by KAL. I found it in a health food store. The pills are horse size, lol, but the stuff works well with no drugs, just herbs. I wouldn't take it every day, but it's great for that monthly puffiness. Smiler

If the heat is making me swell, something there is nothing to do but take one of those herbal pills and try to stay cool. But exercise will often get the water flowing out of me, too.

Didn't you post somewhere about low energy?? I did find an article I thought you might be interested in here:
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/tired.htm

It's pretty good, I thought, except the supplement protocol suggested at the end didn't include some of the important things they discussed! So I would just add them in. If you weren't the one writing about low energy, sorry for bothering you with this link.
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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Hey, Kathleen,

I'm very curious about the hormone tests, though I know that 99% of the problem is getting someone to interpret them correctly. The alternate health docs either diagnose candida for everything, or give odd remedies that are questionable at best. The conventional docs act like you're a flake and a hypochondriac. It's hard to get good-quality health care that addresses your concerns.

Thank you for the kind offer, Kathleen. If I decide to do another thyroid, I'll take you up on it. I'm always told that my thyroid is "normal" though apparently that doesn't necessarily mean much. Do you have someone reliable to interpret your blood tests?


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Registered: 27 November 2004
Posts: 855
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I know enough to interpret them myelf! I also know that most "normal" thyroid tests are c**p. Normal is considered .5 to 5.5 in most labs and that is what most GPs go by.

Well, endocrinologists in the U.S. decided about 2 years ago that anything over 3.0 is BAD. And in Euope, anything over 2.0 is hypothyroid. So that's why you need to look at the results yourself.

I know the optimal range for thyroid (for TSH, Free T3 and Free T4). However, I still work with a doc in D.C. (by phone) to help be get better. I don't know everything! Big Grin And he didn't tell me I have candida, lol! Smiler It took me a while to find him, though. I went though a lot of doctors, both mainstream and alternative, all of which were awful.

I don't think I am on weird treatments. It is mostly nutritonal stuff, like fish oil and varous vitamins, plus glandulars (standardized to contain specific amounts of cortisol). When I read up on what I'm taking, it makes sense WHY I'm taking it!

He explained very thoroughly to me what had likely caused this problem, what is happening and how to help. It was scientific reasons, not silly things like eating acidic foods or nightshade vegetables. Roll Eyes He explained how menses cause problems in girls with existing adreanl problems b/c the body steals cortisol to make progesterone so you have your periods. It all made sense and the things I take are proven to support adrenals or help with metabolism.

ANY good doctor is hard to find it seems, especially if you have something not generally recognized, like I did. My doc is Dr. Rind. He has a website, www.drrind.com He doesn't take insurance, so that sucks (although you could turn it in yourself if you have insurance), but he is VERY thorough and spends a lot of time with you. The first consult took 4 hours! It cost $250 but was worth it. My consults now are like 1/2 hour to 1 hour and cost about $110. Again, i don't care I feel so much better and I spent just as much with docs that didn't help me a darn bit!!

The saliva tests will tell you what the optimal ranges are for whatever you're testing. I know that progesterone is supposed to be something like 400 times greater than estrogen, at least if you're supplementing. Again,the saliva test reports they send you will tell you what it should be. Then you just have to find someone to help you treat yourself.

You COULD try to treat yourself depending on what the tests say. I know many who do this because of lack of a good doctor or lack of money. For example, estrogen dominance is easy to treat and not likely to harm you. You could see how you do and then consult a doc if you run into snags.

Thryoid is more difficult b/c it seems it is never JUST the thyroid! As I said, my thyroid "problems" almost vanished when I started cortisol supplementation and progesterone cream.

Try www.drlam.com It is a great site and may help you.

And I know where to get everything. Smiler I'm not saying everyone should treat themselves, nor am I giving medical advice here, but many do it and I think it's our right to treat ourselves if we want to.

I have some books I would be happy to send you on self-treatment, written mostly for people who can't find doctors to take them seriously or understand their problems! Nothing is said that will hurt you. You are not told to take dangerous drugs or anything!!

But of course I have no idea what is really wrong with you, so you really should get some tests or, if you have all the symptoms of some problems, then you could try some self treatment of things that won't hurt you, like progesterone cream.

Dr. Rind has a protocol on his site for basic adrenal support.

The problem is that there can be snags. I could not tolerate the things I needed most at first. I had to start slow with nutritional support and eventually I could take the cortisol supplements and a tiny dose of T3 for thyroid.

I also take DHEA, but I had to go VERY slow or it gave me insomnia. I added these things slowly after following the basic support program on Dr. Rind's site.

I also learned from trial and error becasue I was sick a long time and no one seemed able to help me! It was awful.

That's why I write long posts like this, because I don't want anyone to suffer like I did. So if you need anything, feel free to write!

Kathleen
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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I read somewhere that supplementing with Vitamin C makes the face lose water.

Interesting that the members of these forums undermine the power of vitamin supplementation.

Vitamin supplementation is a path to many new found abilities some may consider 'unnatural'.(mainly having more energy and a healthier mind and body).

I guarantee that 99% of the people you see around you are Zinc deficient, which is essential for tissue reparation.
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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I take vitamin C, but I still retain water. Sometimes if I take extra vitamin C, I smell like vitamin C. But it hasn't helped me lose the nasty fluid.

In France they make a tea with corn silk which is supposed to work - though I don't think of corn remedies as French. Confused

I've also been told to munch on parsley. I'll keep trying for a safe solution. Smiler


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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I know I read somewhere that Vitamin C can solve this. Seeing that Vitamin C Ester is 10 time smor epowerful than regular Vitamn C, I suggest that you for that and tell what happens after 3 weeks of using it daily.

I also read that drinking more water LOWERS the water on your face because your body no longer sees the need to retain water, fgiven tht it's supply is powerful. Again, it'll take 3 weeks to see results and not overnight.

Roke
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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Roke, how much vitamin C ester should I try each day? I'd like to try it out. Is that ester-C or c-ester ? Thanks, Roke


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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Usually the bottle says Ester-C. It says take two a day, or as directed by your physician. That sums up to 1200 mg of Vitamin C a day, with 160 mg Calcium and 200 mg of Bioflavanoids.
Registered: 27 November 2004
Posts: 855
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ZuZu,

I thought I'd mention that I recently switched brands of progesterone cream. I am estrogen dominant and have learned that high estrogen in relation to progesterone often causes water retention. (In fact, the plummenting of progesterone prior to one's monthly menstruation is what causes bloating.)

Anyway, my feet were swelling something AWFUL these past couple of weeks. It's been hotter here in New Mexico, but still, my feet hurt they were so swollen. After only 3 days on this new cream (actually, it's pure coconut oil with progesterone, so it's liquid), my edema totally went away. Smiler I was/am SO happy!

My feet did swell up the other night when I was outside on a particularly hot day, but that's sort of normal.

HTH,
Kathleen
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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Funny, I get bloated after my period starts. On days4-6 after the period begins I get bloated and unhappy.

But I also bloat for seemingly random reasons - heat, certain foods, etc. I think that it causes too much wear-and-tear on the face.


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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Debbie,

I imagine that the vitamin C would build a strong collagen/eklastin matrix no the fat, thus preventing the water molecules from hanging out with two flabs on the side of your face like bulldog cheeks.

But thank you for the Ester-C requirements, the bottle says otherwise though.

Roke
Registered: 27 November 2004
Posts: 855
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Deb,

I still have to catch up on some emails. We lost cable for a bit and 1/2 of my stuff is stuck on the laptop. Eeker Good news, we are done painting for a while. Woo hoo! Can't wait to get the rooms furnished.

Regarding bloating: I was just making a guess, I really don't know too much about it except that estrogen dominance is linked to water retention. I am thinking that with estrogen dominance, you don't have enough progesterone to even you out as it is, then if both hormones plummet before your period, you are suddenly even more deficient in progesterone relative to estrogen. Does this make sense? For at least 2 weeks, you would be somewhat less progesterone deficient.

I am not sure why you bloat when your hormones are highest, unless you are not making enough progesterone during the luteal phase to counterbalance the estrogen?? Confused

I bloat the day I start my period and for 3-4 days, but it is only about 2 days after being on progesterone cream.

The hormones are very complicated, aren't they?! I never asked my current doc as to the specific causes of bloating as I had too many other problems to concern myself with and he charges by the minute. Big Grin

GRRHHH at docs and those tests. Even the endocrinologists are horrible, which I totally do NOT understand! I think I mentioned that one doc tested my female hormes EXCEPT progesterone and when the results came in, he said I was normal without even asking me what time of the month it was for me!

When I got a copy of the results, the lab forms clearly had different values for different times of the month and it looked like my estrogen was a bit low, too!

Oh, and my TSH of 3.1 (on 1 grain of Armour Thyroid no less) was "right where we want it to be." Roll Eyes

So do you have to take any thyroid meds? Is your TSH messed up b/c of what happened to you with SSRIs?

I can't believe my TSH dropped to 1.7 - 1.8 once I started working on my adrenals. I guess I was turning my T4 into reverse T4 on account of my poor adrenals. But that's way off topic! Smiler

ZuZu,

Yes, it's odd how everyone reacts differently to hormones. I don't know if this is true, but I have read that most PMS symptoms are not normal, but the result of faulty hormone levels, including excessive bloating and severe menstrual cramps. I do know both of these were greatly alleviated for me when I tried to balance my hormones.

I also blow up when it's hot, so I know how you feel! I don't think that's a hormone thing, though. And flying! I can't take my shoes off or I can't get them back on, lol!

My face never seems to bloat, thought, just my lower legs and feet.

I think my circulation is okay, but I do have low blood pressure. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Kathleen
Location: Canada
Registered: 10 July 2004
Posts: 904
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Hi Kathleen,

I also have very low blood pressure (110/60) and have some of the problems you describe. I also have a tendency to bloat around the onset of my period but am now in a peri-menopausal state (only 2 periods this year - both about 3 months apart). My lower legs and feet also swell up when it's hot. I sometimes take prescription diuretics to relieve the swelling, which work great but I don't know how healthy they are in general. I have always attributed my lower legs and feet swelling problems to poor circulation. I also have "reynaud's" which is why I have started taking gingko biloba and am going to start adding gotu kola to my supplements to see if that helps. So far I have not seen any improvement to the reynauds by taking gingko biloba alone, but it has only been about 2-3 months of 120 mg a day.

Kathy Smiler
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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Ester C is not the same as C Ester? Do my eyes decieve me?
Location: Canada
Registered: 10 July 2004
Posts: 904
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Nope. It's absolutely the truth.
Picture of Zuzu's Petals
Location: Bedford Falls
Registered: 05 May 2005
Posts: 362
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Roke, you must have a great sense of humor. Sometimes I really have to laugh at the way you put things. I'm not insulting you at all - I really enjoy your comments. Smiler


Zuzu

On ne voit pas qu'avec le coeur
Location: Canada
Registered: 24 May 2005
Posts: 383
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If I didn't know better, I'd say you were hitting on me? Wink
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