Registered: 24 December 2010
Im looking to get starting working on a raised hyper trophic scar just under my nipple but it seems the roller is really for indented scars only. Im trying to do all I can to get this thing gone. I realize I shouldnt start too strong in terms of the acid used but want to do all I can
Registered: 20 October 2009
BTW, that is really an awful alias! sounds like a bug. No offense, but I didn't want to use your name, feel like I am insulting you.
Anyway, I have never had luck with hyper tropich scars and rolling. I even tried a strong acid on a scar on my leg with no luck except temporarily hyperpigmentation.
But I've only been doing rolling for 6 month. Think Maxx is trying a needle and burn technique where he needles it then immediately put on a stronger acid to burn it.
This is new for him, and pretty aggressive/bold! So I am waiting for his final result before I try it, and I suggest the same.
Location: Skin Biology in Bellevue, Washington - USA
Registered: 22 June 2004
Besides an effective method of abrasion, be sure you are consistently using a relatively strong copper-peptide to start to repair damaged/raised scar tissue.
An excellent product that works well as a spot treatment would be TriReduction Cream. Use lightly once or twice a day.
Registered: 24 December 2010
Thanks. I picked up the nickname way back when I used to be into video games. Guess it stuck
Regarding the roller, I see they offer several sizes so Im unsure the best for my case. My scar is just under my nipple is maybe .25" x .5" in size. Here is a link to some pics:
Also Im still unsure which products from SB to go with. Not that I am adverse to spending money but I would assume start with something stronger if at all possible, but do you think the TriReduction is the best bet based on scar? Im so tired of looking at this thing in the mirror, its quite depressing.
Location: Skin Biology
Registered: 15 September 2004
This is our general advice on scar reduction.
Keep in mind that scar tissue and blemishes are not dead tissue but a self-replicating differentiated form of skin - something like a callus. If scars were dead tissue, the normal wear-and-tear on the skin would swiftly remove them.
Buried skin damage usually causes irregularities in human skin such a bumps, pits or altered pigmentation. This buried damage is usually covered, and trapped in place, by relatively good looking skin. The use of copper peptides, hydroxy acids, abrasion, needling, and retinoic acid help remove the covering skin and the the pushing up and out of the area of damage.
One of the ways that sun damage on skin manifests itself is as dark patches of excess melanin produced in response to UV exposure. This excess melanin is much easier to visualize in the UV than in the visible band. Bruising, bite marks and scar tissue can also be seen in the UV months after they have faded to the eye.
It is difficult to convince people of the huge problem of buried skin damage, but look at the pictures at
So you have to remove it totally to keep it from coming back. But with needles and hydroxy acids you can remove the scar tissue with time.
We think almost any skin blemish (scars and pitted scars, keratosis, skin tags, moles, age spots, sun damage, stretch marks, warts, hyperpigmentation and hypopigmentation, white scars, discoloration) can be reduced or removed with a combination of hydroxy acids, skin abrasion, and Skin Remodeling Copper Peptides (SRCPs).
At times, it appears that under the right conditions, the skin activity ejects damaged skin and blemishes.
Copper peptides increase the anti-scarring protein called decorin while suppressing the production of TGF-beta-1, the scar forming protein. So as you remove scar tissue, the SRCPs help prevent new scar formation.
The hydroxy acids and abrasive methods slowly loosen and dissolve the blemish tissue and the SRCPs help the rebuilding of new skin.(Caution: This advice applies only to normal skin blemishes. Any skin blemish that appears dark, irregular, or bleeds should be promptly checked by a dermatologist.)
Scar reduction is a balancing act of scar removal and rebuilding skin. Too rapid removal of scar tissue and you get a hole in your skin and too little scar removal and there is no progress. In the past, dermatologists often observed that strong hydroxy acids, and other methods like the use of liquid nitrogen on blemishes, would remove the skin blemishes but subsequent skin irritations limited the use of these methods.
Skin may look worse for a time during scar reduction. Some deep scars such as from acne are covered over with a layer of good skin but as the buried scar tissue is pushed to the surface, it becomes noticeable. Often, one has to first get the skin into a healthier condition and then focus on removing the scars. More SRCPs makes skin healthier, more hydroxy acids remove tissue. The method is slow but usually works and has no downside.
We find that repeated use of moderate strength hydroxy acid, followed by the use of SRCPs, usually removes skin blemishes without excess skin irritation.
The SRCPs are usually rubbed into the scar area in the morning and the Hydroxy acid product rubbed in at night. Stronger hydroxy acids and our stronger SRCPs work faster but irritation can sometimes be a problem with the stronger products. Sometimes, people also use retinoic acid (Retin-A or Renova) along with the hydroxy acids to speed scar removal. The products should be used every day.
Some people with severe scars have had good results by applying the products four times daily a hydroxy acid at 8 am, a SRCP at noon, a hydroxy acid at 5 PM, and a SRCP before bedtime. You should see an improvement in a month but some old scars such as stretch marks and keloid scars may take 6 to 8 months to slowly remove. Slower is better in scar reduction.
Copper peptides increase the anti-scarring protein decorin and suppress TGF-beta-1, the scar forming protein. So this will help the new skin grow as regular skin and not as scar tissue.
Sheng Wu Yi Xue Gong Cheng Xue Za Zhi. 2007 Feb;24(1):222-5.
[The action of decorin in anti-fibrosis and anti-cancer] [Article in Chinese]
Ma W, Tan Y, Cai S, Chen H, Du J, Cai S.
Key Laboratory for Biomechanics & Tissue Engineering of the State Ministry of Education, College of Bioengineering, Chongqing University, Chongqing 400044, China.
Decorin (DCN) is a member of the small leucine-rich proteoglycan gene family. Many studies indicated that DCN inhibited fibrosis and scar-formation by neutralization of TGF-P and interfering the binding of TGF-beta with its receptor, which induced ectopic deposition of extracellular matrix. Additionally, DCN can prevent the proliferation and metastasis of tumor cells by activating EGFR/MAPK/p21 signal pathway and inhibiting the cell proliferation pathway mediated by EGF-EGFR. It is suggested that the recombinant DCN had potential pharmaceutical potency in treatment of chronic fibrosis and neoplasm for its critical biological activities and low immunogenicity.
Arch Facial Plast Surg. 2001 Jan-Mar;3(1):28-32.
The effect of copper tripeptide and tretinoin on growth factor production in a serum-free fibroblast model.
McCormack MC, Nowak KC, Koch RJ.
Division of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, Stanford University Medical Center, Stanford, Calif 94305-5328, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of copper tripeptide and tretinoin on normal and keloid-producing dermal fibroblasts in a serum-free in vitro model. The cellular response was described in terms of viability and secretion of basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF) and transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1). METHODS: Primary cell lines were established from patient facial skin samples obtained during surgery and plated in serum-free media. At 0 hour, copper tripeptide (1 x 10 (-9) mol/L), tretinoin (1 x 10 (-5) mol/L), or appropriate control vehicle was added. Cell counts and viability were established at 24, 72, and 120 hours. Supernatants were collected at the same intervals and were assessed for bFGF and TGF-beta1 concentrations using the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay technique. RESULTS: Cell lines showed viability between 86% and 96% (mean, 92%) throughout the experiment. Tretinoin-treated normal fibroblasts secreted more bFGF than did controls at 24 hours (P<.05). Tretinoin-treated keloid-producing fibroblasts secreted more TGF-beta1 than did controls at 120 hours (P<.05). Keloid-producing fibroblasts treated with copper tripeptide secreted less TGF-beta1 than did controls at 24 hours (P<.05); a similar trend was observed in normal fibroblasts. CONCLUSIONS: Normal fibroblasts treated with tretinoin produced more bFGF than did controls, and this might partially explain the clinically observed tightening effects of tretinoin. Normal and keloid-producing dermal fibroblasts treated with copper tripeptide secreted less TGF-beta1 than did controls, suggesting a possible clinical use for decreasing excessive scar formation.
1.If you are under 30, have acne in the scar area, or have rosacea, then use Super CP Serum in the morning and LacSal Serum at night. Start the products lightly - 1 drop of each daily then slowly increase the amount used.
2.If acne is not a problem, then use TriReduction Cream in the morning and LacSal cream at night.
3.If you are not getting enough effect, then try Super Cop or SuperCop 2X Extra Strength Extra which are our strongest SRCP but can cause itching. If it itches, you can wash it off with warm water. Skin slowly adapts to the Super Cops but this can take some time. Usually Super CP Serum is applied lightly in the AM ( 3-4 drops to the entire face) and concentrated specifically on your areas of concern. A Super Cop Cream (or Super Cop 2X) can be used as a spot treatment once a day very lightly. You can even work it into the skin with a flat toothpick.
4.Some clients report good results after applying Super CP Serum, letting it dry for a short time, then applying LacSal Cream over the Super CP Serum.
5. If you still are not getting a good enough effect, then replace our hydroxys with a 30% glycolic acid or lactic acid product. There are links to sellers of these at www.scar-reduction.com or http://www.reverseskinaging.com/resellers.html. For difficult lesions, like age spots, the salicylic acids (about 12% salicylic acid) used for wart
and callus removal often work well - drugstores have these.
6. Skin color usually reverts to its pre-damage color.
7. Blemish reduction can be further accelerated by skin abrasion with exfoliating washcloths (microdermabrasion cloths), pumice stones, abrasive pads, or microdermabrasion kits such as those used to remove calluses. Flat toothpicks can loosen pitted scar tissue. Needles are often used to break up hard or fat-containing scar
tissue in depressed scars such as after cystic acne.
Skin Needle Rollers (roller with needles) often reported work well with our copper peptides. It is available on Internet. Don't use it more than once weekly. Clean it after use and sterilize it before further use.
8.Daily supplements of 1 gram vitamin C, 1 gram MSM, and 1 gram each of either flaxseed oil, borage oil, or primrose oil also help skin rebuilding.
9. Stress inhibits skin repair and the rate of scar reduction by increasing blood cortisol. Taking 75 to 100 mgs daily of DHEA during periods of high stress may help block the cortisol effect and stimulate skin repair.
10.Regular aerobic exercise floods more blood into the skin and speeds skin repair and scar reduction.
11. There is more information at www.scar-reduction.com.
Feel free to email more questions or call Skin Biology at 800-405-1912 during office hours (10 to 5 - Pacific time).
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