I can't tell.

The skin tone I was so happy to have improved seems to have gone south. My face *looks* dry and gross in places, although in actuality is still producing enough oil to slide the concealer right off my face This is not an attractive combination.

I don't think I have the 'monkey face' I've heard described, but my smile lines seem deeper and the skin around my mouth seems a little protruded. I think I'm actually looking a little older as well

Does this sound like the uglies? I'm still getting the yucky tissue stuff happening, but am attributing that to the cps doing their job.

Any words on how long the uglies usually last (if that's what this is??? )?

Just go more slowly and use the copper peptide products lightly.

We have very few problems reported about the products in calls to our office. Overuse can cause some temporary looseness but this never lasts.

We are often asked about assertions from a Dr. Todorov. He says that copper peptides, especially our 2nd generation peptides, cause skin damage and inflammation by increasing skin oxidation. Todorov's assertions are ignorant and not supported by clinical studies or tests in animals and humans.

Todorov is really an advertising salesman who sells advertising for his website. He called me once in the past on our Toll Free 800 line and tried to get me to buy ads on his website. I declined, then he started attacking our products.

Skin remodeling is the process of removing old and damaged skin and replacing it with new skin. Skin can only rebuild so fast. It takes about a months to rebuild skin under good conditions

We receive very few reports of irritation or temporary skin loosening at our office. Some people who start copper peptides too heavily have problems but starting with milder products usually works very well. Also, repeated use of strong hydroxy acids can thin the skin and make the skin more sensitive to any product.

Dr. (?) Todorov has a website smartskincare.com. Todorov claims to have many academic degrees (BS, MS, PhD, plus an additional degree in nutrition) but does not say when they were granted, so we cannot check to see if they are real. Todorov passes himself off as a scientist who performed research on but never seems to have published papers in
reviewed journals on skin or cell biology.

If he has data to support his contentions, then he should publish the findings in scientific journals. He also claims to be an expert on skin care and cell growth but I have working this area for 47 years and never heard of him. None of my friends in cell biology and dermatology have every heard of him. A search of Google for "german todorov" brings up nothing of value. A search of PubMed for published papers for "todorov g" also brings up nothing pertinent. Real scientists give talks, publish papers and file patents. He has his name on a 1992 paper of the actions of tumor promoters on cultured fibroblasts which he claims make him and expert on skin. But this is a cancer research paper and not about skin or dermatology.

The effects of copper peptides have been studied in over 1,000 people have been in various types of studies. Because the SRCPs <http://reverseskinaging.com/srcps.html> were originally intended for clinical use, there were a great number of safety studies in animals and humans. Even at high SRCP concentrations, no researcher ever reported
skin irritation or inhibition of skin repair. Todorov has said that the copper complexes complexes oxidize tissue, but if this happened, then there would have been tissue inflammation observed in the studies. There are zero reports of skin damage from the academic studies.

In published, placebo-controlled human studies of our 2nd generation copper peptides by Prof. Howard Maibach at UC San Francisco, we tested creams as stronger than Super Cop 2X
<http://store.reverseskinaging.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=22> on human skin and found both strong healing and anti-inflammatory actions. These very strong copper peptide creams actually reduced the inflammation when applied to skin that was irritated and inflamed after the application of of nickel salts to the skin of person allergic to nickel.

These studies are in http://www.reverseskinaging.com/studies.html

Todorov talks about MMPs and their activities but display a great ignorance of the biochemistry of such systems. The copper peptides activate many reactions. See http://www.reverseskinaging.com/studies.html

Copper peptides increase the production of MMPs and anti-proteases that block MMP actions. So the actual MMP activity depends on the balance of these two types of proteins. The only direct test of copper peptides and MMP activity is from a study in rats this idea was from a study in rats that found that the copper peptides actually decreased the activity of MMPs.

Vet Surg. 2003 Nov-Dec;32(6):515-23.
The effect of topical tripeptide-copper complex on healing of ischemic
open wounds.

Canapp SO Jr, Farese JP, Schultz GS, Gowda S, Ishak AM, Swaim SF,
Vangilder J, Lee-Ambrose L, Martin FG.
Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, University of Florida
College of Veterinary Medicine, and the School of Medicine Institute for
Wound Research, Gainesville, FL 32610, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of topical glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine
tripeptide-copper complex (TCC; Iamin 2% Gel; Procyte Corporation,
Redmond, WA) on healing in ischemic open wounds. STUDY DESIGN:
Experimental study. SAMPLE POPULATION: Twenty-four adult male
Sprague-Dawley rats. METHODS: Rats were divided into 3 groups: topical
TCC, topical TCC vehicle (hydroxypropyl-methylcellulose), and no
treatment (control). Six-mm-diameter, full-thickness wounds were created
within an ischemic bipedicle skin flap on the dorsum of each rat. Each
day, for 13 days, wound margins were traced, and the TCC and TCC vehicle
groups were treated topically. Tracings were scanned, and wound
perimeter and area were calculated. On days 6, 10, and 13, selected
wounds were biopsied and analyzed for tumor necrosis factor alpha
(TNF-alpha) and matrix metalloproteinases (MMP) 2 and 9. RESULTS: A
significant decrease in wound area was seen in the TCC group, but not
the vehicle group, when compared with the control group on days 3 to 5,
6 to 9, and 11 to 13 and when TCC was compared with TCC vehicle on days
3 and 9. On day 13, initial wound area had decreased by 64.5% in the TCC
group, 45.6% in the vehicle group, and 28.2% in the control group. On
days 6, 10, and 13, TCC-treated wounds contained significantly lower
concentrations of TNF-alpha and MMP-2 and MMP-9 than control wounds.
CONCLUSION: Topical TCC resulted in accelerated wound healing in
ischemic open wounds. CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Topical TCC is an effective
stimulant of healing of ischemic open wounds in rats and may have an
application for the treatment of chronic wounds in other species.
Clinical evaluation of topical TCC is warranted.

Furthermore, it is impossible for free copper ion to exist in the
system. The binding affinities of peptides for copper ion are so high
that for every molecule of free ionic copper, there are at least 1000
billion bound copper ion bound to the peptides. The amount of free
copper is unmeasurable and of no consequence.

People do have some problems when treating skin around the eyes. This
is very thin skin and is often damaged by make-up and make-up
removers. The problem is trying to push the changes too fast. No one
ever had long lasting problems.

....................

Also look at the possible anti-senescence activities of copper peptides at http://reverseskinaging.com/GH...untain_of_Youth.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dr. Pickart,

Hello Dr.Pickart,

Thanks very much for your reply. :-) First of all, I would like to say I think I have very few doubts about the products working. I have only used cps for a short amount of time (maybe close to two months now, tops?) but in that span of time, I have seen evidence that there are changes occuring in my skin. Also, I have done several spot treatments on icepick type scars with tca and followed with super cp serum-I did see firsthand that the scabs healed faster and filled more than they had when I had done the treatment prior with no super cp.

I did have concerns about the scar tissue that seemed to be forming in places where I have never noticed problems before, but since then I have been assured (thanks to the very nice people on this forum! that things are happening as they should be.

I've heard mention of the uglies a few times, but mostly the appearance of it and the length of time it affects people seems to be ambiguous. I do wonder what is considered a normal length of time for this to be occuring??

I think having an idea of how long it will last may help to make a hideous stage more bearable.

I have not heard of Dr.Todorov, but I think the satisfied testimonials and pleased customers using this forum(not to mention positive feedback on neutral source product review including acne.org) are a greater testiment to the products than his sudden and unsupported claims.

I will take your advice and try to use the products more sparingly. Thanks again

Scar tissue does replicate itself. This is why it is so difficult to remove scars.

But in children, scars are quickly remove. But in adults this process slows. SO we try to make your skin respond more like a child's skin.

So you keep removing the scar tissue with hydroxy acid, retin-a and abrasion, while also stimuating the rebuilding of new healthy normal skin that in time pushes out the remaining scar tissue.