I just ordered the flexaway and from what I've read it seems promising, but I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what type of facial exercise regimens have worked for NL lines?

thanks in advance!

Go to www.flexeffect.com & look at some of the pictures of results.

Hi...the photos are amazing and I've read a lot of great things here and elsewhere on the Flex Effect...I guess I'm looking for specific feedback on what systems work best for the NL area.

Thanks,

Both Eva Fraser's workout and Carolyn's Facial Fitness have done a beautiful job of eliminating N/L lines for me. I never had any for years thanks to Eva Fraser, then I developed them after I tried a new program for a few months. But CFF solved that problem in less than a year so I'm totally hooked on CFF.

Here are visuals:
First are pics of where Eva had me when I was being consistent with my exercising:


And then curiosity had me trying something new when really there was no need for change since Eva was working fine, and I wound up here:

(For some reason, this photo wasn't showing so I edited this post to put it back. 10/08/08)

But after a few months of CFF I was back where I wanted to be:

This message has been edited. Last edited by: N'nie,

Hi N'nie, thanks for your feedback.

I had seen your photos in an earlier post and you have phenomenal skin Is it this one that is Carolyn's Facial Fitness that you use:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/index.html

Yes, MissKitty, that is indeed the program I use.

Thanks for the compliment on my skin.

Interestingly enough, I had nl lines once for a period, and I was speaking with an accupuncturist over here in the UK and she was telling me that in the 5 elements medicine, nl lines on the face usually symbolise digestive troubles (which at that time for me they certainly did). She then gave me an accupuncture treatment and the next day they were gone (and so were my digestive troubles). Of course not everyone has access to an accupuncturist - but I have always remembered that part about the nl lines symbolising digestive trouble and when I see people with them, I used to ask if they had digestive trouble and used to be pleasantly surprised by how many people verified that they often did.

Miss Kitty - I don't know whether you do suffer - but figured it might be of interest and worth mentioning. I haven't studied 5 elements accupuncture so can only relay what my friend did but I am always in awe of the theory as it covers everything from times during the day/night in which you awake, to colours on the skin etc. I love the way it examines a persons entire picture (and that of their parents, lifestyle etc).

Hi there,

N´nie, I just wanted to comment that your testimonial on CFF page was one of the reasons that I decided to with that program. Congratulations on fabulous skin!

Unfortunately, the program doesn´t seem to be doing anythign for me. I have been using it since October, consistently until about a month ago, as I got discouraged. My main issue was under eye fine lines, which seem to have only increased since then. Carolyn is very sweet, but when it comes to advice, she just says "keep on doing the exercises" not much else. I will keep looking for a facial fitness program that works for me!

I would love to start a topic about the best facial fitness programs out there! Anybody?

Thanks,
H

Hey H,

Ok its still only be 9 months since you have begun that program.... are you able to give it the full year to try it out and then decide on moving on?

Most times with any facial exercise program, you will get basic results during the first 6 months but the real results come after the year.

Are you using anything on your eye area (CPs for instance or anything). Even with those, they take a while to show up but are working underneath and so gradually help the skin to revitalise itself but this takes time as it does it from quite deep down into the derm at the base level. I do think SkinBios stuff is light years ahead of many of the so called advertising cosmetics and skincare brands out there because it focuses on working with the body and skin, but at the baby cells level, and then focuses its attention on the way up to the outer skin.

I don't know Carolyn's program that well, so can only offer you a couple of thoughts. I do a different program, but again it takes about a years worth of training for those kind of results to show up.

As for the best facial fitness programs out there - its very much based on personal interpretation as I have been reminded so many times. Any program out there for the face will have an effect of sorts, its really just about what kind of effects your after, what your lifestyle and health is like (as these really do show up on the face), and the amount of time your willing to devote. So you could start a thread for sure..... but your going to get possibly 101 different responses pointing to many different programs.... because they have worked for people in the results they wanted.

Sean

Dear H, I’m Carolyn of Carolyn’s Facial Fitness. You apparently have me confused with Flex Effect. As I understand it, they are known to give the advice to “train harder” or keep on doing the exercises when one of their clients asks for help. I am against this philosophy completely. So, I could not have said this to you. I've NEVER given that kind of advice. EVER! I always give new individually corrective exercises to people to try until we have addressed that particular issue. ALWAYS. I also know that Flex Effect has had complaints in the past about damage around the eyes. I have never had this complaint with my program, so it further tells me that you must have me confused with the Flex Effect program. The CFF program gives a beautiful build to the face. Please look here: Just copy and paste the links into your browser. http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/6MarilynB&A.html and here: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/4before&after.html Both of these people are certainly over sixty and they were able to get back the shape of their faces when they were younger as well as improve the texture of their skin. I think if you ever tried my program you’d be very happy with the results.

So, I'm a bit confused and considerably suspicious at what is being reported here. I have been slandered in this way before on the Internet by one of my competitors in an attempt to ruin my reputation.

I can only speak for myself, but Carolyn that advice that you have attributed to us isn’t always recommended for everyone (and rarely nowadays do I see that thing mentioned). Usually you will find that FE trainers do ask lots of questions before making any such recommendation of any sort as we look to the whole health of a person and the challenges that they are perhaps facing with their face.

Its not a philosophy that is completely and fully supported by us in every situation, and as a result we will often quiz a person about their health etc. The eye area is indeed one of the thinnest skinned areas, but its also highly revealing about health and diet challenges or problems that the person may be having. For instance, if a person is deficient in vitamins or has a blocked lymph, will often show up in this very area.

I am not aware of any complaints re the eyes recently? It is possible that when you were learning FlexEffect yourself that there were problems then, because at that time there was only two trainers plus Deb who used to get completely overwhelmed with the number of training requests and questions. Naturally the forum is staff a lot more regularly now and there are always trainers or indeed other flexers around who are more than happy to help people with their questions.

I do agree with you though, age is not a barrier to get results with any facial exercise program out there and there are many wonderful ones (such as both of ours) that can help people achieve results in that area.

Naha, I thought in your message you had said you purchased Carolyn’s program, but if this is something that has arisen by you actually purchasing the FlexEffect program….. then please do visit the FlexEffect forum and myself or anyone of the trainers would be more than happy to help you with your questions or even start a thread where you could get comments from other Flexers. I understand from Carolyn’s message that you didn’t purchase her program, but please do let us know which program your talking about.

Carolyn, I am sorry that you feel that Naha’s results are attributable to FlexEffect. I only responded to Naha’s message as I do try to visit SkinBio’s forum regularly because I do think their products are the best out there, and naturally share a passion for Facial Exercise like you do. However, this is not any attempt of slander on FlexEffect’s part nor an attempt to ruin your reputation. As you will see from my response to Naha, I didn’t at any point discuss your program and stated “I don't know Carolyn's program that well, so can only offer you a couple of thoughts.” There is no judgment on your program in that message at all, simply my honesty and thoughts why Naha might not have had the success.

Sean

Sean, I’m a bit confused why you’re answering for Naha?

Just to clarify. I had to assume that when I’m accused of giving advice that I’ve heard is attributable to Flex Effect and that it’s an eye issue as well, it’s only natural for me to want to set the record straight. Furthermore, when I purchased the Flex Effect program over ten years ago, I found it not to my liking for a variety of reasons and so I never managed to get into it except for the very beginning.

On another note and for which this forum is so well known, Dr. Pickart’s products are simply fantastic. I have used them for years, first being introduced to them through the House of Deming. I recommend his products, especially his CPs to many of my clients. What wonderful products they are for sure. When his products are used in conjunction with facial exercises the results are always enhanced for the better.

Carolyn,

Just to be clear, I cannot answer for Naha at all and was not attempting to do so. I did have the ability to answer some of the points in which you seem to be trying to attribute the blame to FlexEffect without the original posters confirmation. It could very much be FlexEffect, but it could be several other programs.

There are facial exercise programs out there but I do know FlexEffect personally and many people do not have issues with the eye area at all. In fact, many people comment that their eyes are the first places to show changes.

You seem to suggest its FlexEffect without the original author confirming and this is also confusing and not accurate (at present). That’s the only reason why I responded to address those points you make about the FlexEffect program.

I understand its not to your liking, thats great as it encouraged you to develope your own program which works for you, however I do not think its appropriate to be suggesting it’s a program that Naha hasn’t confirmed (and you will see from my message I have asked her to confirm) and lay the blame on. You will see that even when she did attribute blame to your program, I didn't embark on an attack of it, but came back with neutral advice which would fit any program. If it is FlexEffect I even tell her to approach the forum for FlexEffect.

Dr Pickart’s products are fantastic – I didn’t suggest otherwise. I simply was giving you the background to why I responded to Naha’s message in the first place. I am by no means qualified in copper peptides and their usage but visit this forum frequently to learn about the products and how people achieve benefits from the various products.

Sean

Hi Everyone!

I personally have several facial exercise programs and so far I have found Flexeffect superior to all of them. I’ve not purchased Carolyn’s facial training so can’t throw in my two cents but I can’t imagine what more could possibly be offered outside of surgery but I’m most willing to purchase Carolyn's program if there is something new that Flexeffect doesn’t offer. Please Carolyn, how do you compare?

Hi! I also own over 70 facial exercise programs and books. I do love to research this topic! In respect to my competitor FE, I do not wish to make a public evaluation. However, I am glad to answer this question for you in full. Please send me a private email to carolyn@carolynsfacialfitness.com . Warmest regards, Carolyn

Hi H! Since I suspect you are one of my competitors and in order to put this issue to rest, please send me a private email to carolyn@carolynsfacialfitness.com with your full name and date you bought the program and I will refund your money to you in full. Best regards, Carolyn

H, you will see Carolyn's message and offer of a refund.

Please do pop back and comment on this thread to let us know which program you did buy and clear up the confusion over the advice that you were given and from who.

Thank you.

Sean

Wow,

I didn't realize how many responses this had gotten.

I haven't had a chance to read them all, but I just wanted to confirm, that YES I bought Carolyn's Facial Fitness. I'm not trying to slander anybody, just give real and honest personal feedback, which is what I think forums are for. In fact that is the absolute beauty of forums, we all share our experiences, what works and what doesn't, and we all get to learn. I have learned so much from others experiences from the various forums I visit, which is why I wanted to take the time to share my experience.

Again, I'm not saying the program wouldn't work for everyone, but it (so far, about 6 to 7 months after) hasn't worked for me. In fact I look at pictures of myself from last November and I look younger in every way. Makes me sad...

I hear about "ugly" periods from other facial programs (Carolyn makes no mention of this however)..perhaps this is what is happening. But is discouraging and so I stopped. Carolyn I did send you a personal email and you told me just to have faith and continue. I still have a copy of it! Again, don't want to slander, just share my experience.

No I'm not using copper peptides, but have just bought some. I sure hope they are as fantastic as I hear and that I can dose them correctly.

Have to clarify here. I realize I should be more precise. I just checked and I purchased Carolyn's program in DECEMBER 2007, not November. Sorry about that.

I received it in the beginning of December and started it right away. The only thing I could be accused of is over use, as I sometimes did exercises twice a day. However, other programs mention that you can do this (I know from reading, not purchasing). I stopped about a month ago. That is about 6 months of use, perhaps a bit less. I stopped because I felt things were getting worse for me. Maybe it wasn't long enough, maybe just a case of the "uglies"...but I really wanted to see IMPROVEMENT, so wasn't brave enough to continue.

BTW, I'm early 30s, look(ed) about 25, fair skin, keep great care of it, SPF all the time. Just had beginning of fine lines under eyes and nasal labial lines. I believe the under eye lines increased with CFF. I wrote her a message about it several months ago and she said, not to "work harder" but to keep the faith and just continue.

Just about 3 weeks ago I tried Carol Maggio's Facercise for a few weeks and then noticed my NL lines increasing! Stopped that one! Arrrhgh! It really isn't my mission to slander any of these programs. Just find a program that works for me!!!!Firmer under eye area and non existant NL! Is that too much to ask???

Is the ugly stage a necessary precursor to the improvement stage? If you see that things are getting worse, how can you be sure that they will get better? This is like a Catch 22 for me. I really want to believe in Facial exercises and have them work for me!

Thanks to you all

H

H, thanks very much for coming back and clearing up the confusion. Ok 6 months is still relatively early days for any program. Sometimes what happens is during facial training of any sort, the cheeks begin lifting and expose the nl line that would have shown up eventually. So even if you were doing a different program, its more than likely that could have shown up anyhow. Now its not to say your cursed with them forever. No way, but the lucky part is that your at an age where its going to be much easier to deal with them and get them moving. Naturally though, you want to stay a little longer with one program. Your kind of going to be shocking your muscles, which you don't want. You want to train your facial muscles into a routine, and get them used to having full circulation and challenge of sorts. At FlexEffect, we usually advise people to stick with it for a year. Not because you won't get results before that, but they are mere tasters. A year flies by, and some people do get results where some muscles respond straight away and overbuild, and some muscles don't appear to want to play at all (because for various reasons they are neglected or haven't been fully engaged, or perhaps are being overcompensated for by other muscles). It really does vary.

Interestingly enough though, I would really suggest you add some SkinBio products to your regime, as these do work so well in tangent with any exercise program. I see SkinBio even have a page specifically for the nl area: http://www.skinbio.com/nasolabial.html.

When I studied massage, particularly Chinese Facial Massage, they used to say the nl area was significant for digestion, and often times in massage, when someone had deep nl lines, usually they experienced challenges with their diet. Its a thought worth investigating with people I figure, but might not be so for you.

Best wishes with your training, I'm sure you will get rid of the nl lines.

Sean