I use Oleda All Natural Mineral Sunscreen. It is very gentle and seems to give me coverage, although the company doesn't provide an SPF.

These are the ingredients:
TITANIUM DIOXIDE 12.5%, ZINC OXIDE 0.5% OTHER INGREDIENTS: WHOLE LEAF ALOE VERA CONCENTRATE, PURIFIED WATER, ISOPROPYL MYRISTATE, STEARIC ACID, GLYCERIN, ISOPROPYL PALMITATE, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, CETEARETH-20, CETYL ALCOHOL, PETROLATUM, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, LIVE YEAST CELL DERIVATIVE, DIMETHICONE, PVP, TRIETHANOLAMINE, NONOXYNOL-9, METHYLPARABEN, PROPYLPARABEN, 5 AMINO-1,3-BIS (2-ETHYLHEXYL)-5-METHYL- HEXAHYDROPYRIMIDINE, 7-ETHYL-BICYCLOOXAZOLIDINE, TOCOPHEROL.

I'm liking this product very much. I burn veryeasily, and I've been happy with this product.

ZuZu,

Titanium dioxide is very effective at preventing burns. Unfortunately, burns are caused by UVB and your sunscreen while protecting you very well against UVB, is hardly protecting you at all from UVA. The PPD is probably less than 4 (that's like an SPF for UV). UVA causes photoaging and damages the immune system.

I can find a more accurate estimate of the PPD is you're interested.

If you like it, of course, stick with it! But if you read some of the sunscreen threads here and some posts from some "guests", you will see what I mean about using a good UVA blocker. PURE titanium is an excellent UVA blocker, but only in the large particle size that lifeguards use that leave you all pasty white!

I realize there is a theory that moderate sunscreen use with lots of antioxidants offers adequate protection. That is still open for debate but certainly a possibility.

Unfortunately, the best UVA blockers are chemical, BUT they are not estrogenic and the free radicals they create are less than the free radicals produced by UVA exposure. Vichy even makes most sunsceens without estrogenic parabens!

HTH,
Kathleen

Kathleen

I would be very interested in any additional info that you can share with me. I prided myself on knowing a fair amount about skin care, but some of you really know so much more I'm horrified that I haven't been getting adequate UVA protection.

Hi Zuzu, I don't have an answer for you but had to comment on your name. I have used that name at other forums in the past so you know I think your name is adorable. Do you happen to be a fan of the movie "It's A Wonderful Life"?

It's my all-time favorite, Dimples.

Also, when I was small I couldn't say Suzanne and called myself Zuzu. It stuck.

Years ago I worked with someone who's niece was in an all girl band called Zuzu's Petals.

Lilu

Fun!

I was recently horrified myself! I've only discovered all this UVA information the past couple of months. And I thought I was on top of it with sunscreens.

Well, better late than never. My melasma is fading now, too, woohoo!

I'll post the ingredients in your sunscreen in another forum and seen what the UVA verdict is!

Kathleen

quote:

Originally posted by Zuzu's Petals:
Kathleen

I would be very interested in any additional info that you can share with me. I prided myself on knowing a fair amount about skin care, but some of you really know so much more I'm horrified that I haven't been getting adequate UVA protection.

I got nervous about the UVA and ordered some Vichy. I try to stay away from chemical sunscreens, but I'm choosing the chemicals as the lesser of two evils.

Thanks for your help .

I have liked Peter Thomas Roth's SPF 30 Ultra-light Chemical-Free Sunscreen.

Most sunscreen are WAY too greasy or they make me break out. This has been one that hasn't done either, and seems to prevent me from getting burned.

BTW, I've been told from numerous sources that inert sunscreens (zinc and titanium) offer UVA protection. Where are you getting your information from?

ZuZu,

I'm sorry I have not gotten an answer regarding your prior sunscreen! I have been too busy to post until today.

I think the newer chemicals (tinosorb and the mexoryls) are the lesser of two evils myelf. But that is just me. Others have differing opinions, of course. I do use antioxidants under the sunscreen to help with free radical damage (which are going to occur with either the sunscreen or the UV).

And I am content to use a lesser SPF or PPD factor on my body. I do not feel the need to block every single ray (which I know is not possible anyway.)

The only place I get freaked about is my face, but that is only because of my melasma (which is so improving, woo hoo!!)

Cattygurl,

Zinc and titanium are often touted as good UVA protection, but I've recently learned they are not that great after all. Unfortunately, not much else was approved in the US, so what were the companies going to say? These aren't very good, but it's all we have?

Avobenzone has some good properties, but tends to be unstable. In fact, titanium dioxide breaks it down.

This information COULD be wrong in the following link, but I highly doubt it. There are some other thread here on Skin Bio forum about posts from "Mag" on YTF.

The link is very technical. Sorry! There is also a letter written by L'Oreal to the FDA trying to get approval for Mexoryl as it is so badly needed in the U.S. (Everyone else has it!!) Tinosorb will be approved within a few weeks in the U.S.!

If you search for posts by Kathy C, she did post to me several times with comments from Mag that support what is in the link I posted above.

I have not done in depth studies outside of this, but I think the info is correct.

I also posted some letters between me and the makers of Total Block regarding UVA protection. They would not give me the PPD (UVA protection) information for their sunscreens but asked for my sources of information regarding the less than adequate protection of zinc and titanium.

I gave them the link I just posted above and the letter written by L'Oreal to the FDA. I never heard from them again, even when I pointed out that their statement that it was illegal to give out PPD information when the U.S. does not recognize this standard yet was false. They HAD done the PPD studies and it is NOT illegal to divulge the results of those, even if you cannot print the info on the bottle. As I said, they never replied, which I found telling.

(The estimated PPD of their sunscreens, based on the ingredients, is only 8.) The newer sunscreens like Tinosorb and Mexoryl, along with stablized Avobenzone, can produce PPDs of 28-30. You cannot get this with titanium or zinc, BUT SVR Laboratories and Avene (both only in Europe) sell some chemical free sunscreens that achieve PPD of at least 10, which is decent, but not excellent.

Hope I haven't bored you to death by now!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBiologyWebmaster,

You haven't bored me, at least. That's very informative. What, Kathleen, is "stabilized" Avobenzone? Also, what antioxidants do you use under your chemical sunscreen? So many questions I also worry much more about my face like you, Kathleen. I probably should pay better attention to what I'm putting on by body and absorbing through my skin.

I'm liking the Vichy so far though I'm never sure which is the best route to go.

Stablized Avonbenzone is just where they add ingredients to prevent it from breaking down, as it is prone to do. Most companies (in Europe and Canada, anyway) are using Octyclene (sp?). 4-MBC is a good stabilizer, but is is highly estrogenic, so most manufacturers (except Bioderma) don't use it anymore.

In fact, most of the newer sunscreens use hardly any estrogenic chemicals except the octocrylene. Vichy doesn't even use parabens or other preservatives!

Vichy is VERY good and very cheap if bought online. I just prefer Anthelios Fluide XL for my face b/c it is super light and has almost the highest possible PPD of 28.

I am using a homemade C/E serum in the AM under my sunscreen, but SRCPs are supposed to work well as antioxidants, too. Even Skin Bio's emu oil would be great as it's chock full of good antioxidants. Unfortunately, it makes Anthelios migrate into my eyes, so I can't use it A.M.

I am planning to make an antioxidant body lotion this week that will be very "clean" and paraben-free. I was planning to use it under my Vichy sunscreen on my body.

Not to confuse you at this point, but I just re-read some of Deb's earlier posts about diet, supplements and UVA effects on the skin. I have just been into the oral antioxidant thing very recently and haven't even tried the antioxidant body lotion to protect against UV damage.

SOOO, MAYBE I will make the body lotion and just add some pure titanium?? I have written to see how much titanium I need to add to get a PPD of at least 8, but I fear it will be very whitening.

That said, I am not too worried to use Vichy on my body. I don't think there is much systemic effect from the chemicals, I don't think the chemicals themselves are causing cancers, and I only use it on my arms and chest, not slathering my whole body like at the beach or something!

I sit in an office much of the day in front of a window and that is more than "moderate" sun exposure in my opinion. I am leaning towards Vichy and an antioxidant lotion underneath as well as my supplements to protect against free radicals from the sunscreen.

HTH!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Idelle Musiek,

ZuZu,

I got the answer regarding your sunscreen, but it is not favorable, as I suspected.

"...not very good. I'd skip it. If the product goes on clear or mostly clear it will have very little UVA protection from 360-400 nm. It will also have a low PPD, maybe 4-5."

I'm not sure what "mostly clear" means. I have personally used titanium products (Neutrogena's Sensitive Skin Sunscreen) and it left a bit of a white cast, but in general it was very fairly clear. I wasn't embarrassed to wear it in public!

I think you are buying Vichy now anyway, though.

HTH.

quote:

Originally posted by Zuzu's Petals:
I use Oleda All Natural Mineral Sunscreen. It is very gentle and seems to give me coverage, although the company doesn't provide an SPF.

These are the ingredients:
TITANIUM DIOXIDE 12.5%, ZINC OXIDE 0.5% OTHER INGREDIENTS: WHOLE LEAF ALOE VERA CONCENTRATE, PURIFIED WATER, ISOPROPYL MYRISTATE, STEARIC ACID, GLYCERIN, ISOPROPYL PALMITATE, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, CETEARETH-20, CETYL ALCOHOL, PETROLATUM, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, LIVE YEAST CELL DERIVATIVE, DIMETHICONE, PVP, TRIETHANOLAMINE, NONOXYNOL-9, METHYLPARABEN, PROPYLPARABEN, 5 AMINO-1,3-BIS (2-ETHYLHEXYL)-5-METHYL- HEXAHYDROPYRIMIDINE, 7-ETHYL-BICYCLOOXAZOLIDINE, TOCOPHEROL.

I'm liking this product very much. I burn veryeasily, and I've been happy with this product.