I am going nuts trying to find a decent sunblock for my face. I don't want to use chemical sunscreens but feel compelled to protect against photoaging from incidental exposure. All the physical sunblocks I find have zinc oxide in addition to titanium dioxide. If I use it will it negate the CP's I just put on? I use Super CP Serum in the morning followed by Emu Oil. I tried P&R Day Cover and sadly it made my blemish prone skin break out in spite of my RAM use.
What is the consensus on ZO with CP's?
Thanks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SkinBiologyWebmaster,

Hi Redhot,

I asked this question to Dr P in a private email just a day or so ago. Zinc Oxide and the CPs are incompatible because they compete in binding to cells. Keep looking, there are chemical-free and zinc-free creams out there. I don't live in the US, so I can't recommend a specific cream to you that is internationally available that Dr P approves of. I'm now using the Skinbio high mineral day cover. i like it (apart form the lavender smell), but it is probably like P&R daycover, but richer in titanium. MJ

Bummer. I thought as much. Thanks for the reply MJ. I'm going out of my trying to find a sunblock for my face.

There's a very nice SPF 18 sunblock that's only titanium dioxide by ALBA Botanicals in a blue tube. It's labled "chemical free." It's a good one, and has only a very faint vanilla smell to it.

Thanks Jenny. I'll check it out.

In my opinion, the best sun protective cream would contain titanium dioxide plus molecules such as DNA, squalane, proteins or peptides to also absorb UV light. The protectant would also have high levels of antioxidants that are normally in the human body.

The problem is that sun protectants are drugs in the USA. I have talked with numerous companies about such a sun protectant. No company has the financial resources to get a new drug approval for such sun protectants (squalane, DNA, proteins, antioxidants, etc) in the USA since it is a low profit margin area.

Titanium dioxide offers relative poor protection and too much of it can be whitening. I rather have Tinosorb M instead of titanium dioxide. Too much of this UV absorber is also whitening, but it is far more effective. Tinosorb M is an organic micronized UV absorber with minimal dermal penetration.

Antioxidants can boost the SPF significantly. There are some patents claiming traditional UV absorbers and an antioxidant complex work synergistically. Thereby reducing the need for UV absorbers to accomplish the same SPF.

There are also studies showing iron chelators enhance the SPF as well as the UVA protection.

Several polymers and non actives like SunSpheres can dramatically increase protection.

Why would a company file a new drug approval when they can add them as non active ingredient? It only would require the use of at least one FDA approved UV absorber in the product to claim sun protection.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen:
Titanium dioxide offers relative poor protection and too much of it can be whitening. I rather have Tinosorb M instead of titanium dioxide. Too much of this UV absorber is also whitening, but it is far more effective. Tinosorb M is an organic micronized UV absorber with minimal dermal penetration.

Antioxidants can boost the SPF significantly. There are some patents claiming traditional UV absorbers and an antioxidant complex work synergistically. Thereby reducing the need for UV absorbers to accomplish the same SPF.

There are also studies showing iron chelators enhance the SPF as well as the UVA protection.

Several polymers and non actives like SunSpheres can dramatically increase protection.

Why would a company file a new drug approval when they can add them as non active ingredient? It only would require the use of at least one FDA approved UV absorber in the product to claim sun protection.

Tinosorb M is methylene bis-benzotriazolyl tetramethylbutylphenol. Molecules like this absorb much UV energy then start to break down into toxic side products that enter the body. Stable is a relative term and none of these are very stable under hours of UV light. The human body has great difficulty remove such types of alien molecules.

Titanium dioxide is a simple molecule that stays on the skin's surface and has few breakdown products - none of which would be a problem.

The pink hippo sunscreen would be better.

what about applying some oil like olive oil before you apply your sunscreen with zinc oxide? this will reduce the amount of zinc oxide to your skin while offering protection right?

While I'm enjoying this discussion about ingredients immensely, I'm gonna post a personal response to RedHot's original question and hope it doesn't derail the conversation.

RedHot, Have you tried any face powders? I've gotten the best sunprotection from using MAC cosmetics Studio Fix powder, and their Studio Tech foundation. The powder doesn't move when you sweat, although it rinses off quite easily. I only have to reapply it once or twice for an all day hike, and it's kept my face from frying on a week long backpacking trip at high altitude. I get a slight tan, but without it my face would've been lobster red and possibly blistered. Even SPF 45 creams haven't approached the protection of a semi-opaque face powder. I imagine some other powders like 'mineral' makeup might also have a similarly protective effect.

I use a face powder by Jane Iredale which is SPF 15. It doesn't break me out and looks nice.

Also, I recently purchased a micronized titanium dioxcide sunscreen, SPF 30+, from California Baby containing (besides the titanium dioxide):
Purified Water,
Coconut Fatty Acid- Alkylbenzoate (Moisturizer),
Silicone-Cyclomeythicone (Water Repellant),
Vegetable Glycerin,
Dipolydroxystearate (Works To Emulsify),
Candelilia Wax (Protects Against Moisture Loss),
Vitamin E (Antioxidant),
Coconut Oil,
Japanese Green Tea (Anti-Oxidant),
Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate),
Vitamin B Complex Factor- Panthenol, Allatoin, Magnesium Stearate, Ethyl And Propylparaben (Food Grade Preservative Anti-Bacterial)

I bought it at www.mothernature.com
It's official title is California Baby's Sunscreen SPF 30+ - No Fragrance, 2.9 oz

I'll post whther it breaks me out or not. That's my main concern. They also have a fragranced version, but I figured with my history I'd best go with the fragrance-free version.

I'm liking L'occitane's spf 20 fluid. I threw away the box months ago and can't find the ingredients online, but it uses Titanium Dioxide as the only sunscreen. I know it also has shea butter. It's quite moisturizing and has a fragrance, though it's not bothersome to me. It's pricey, but if you just use it for your face...

I just found the ingredient list online, but this product seems to be out of stock at a lot of places. I hope they aren't discontinuing it!

Ingredients:
Active Ingredients: Titanium Dioxide (10.4%)

Inactive Ingredients: Aqua/Water,Cyclopentasiloxane, Butter Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Glycerin, Corn Starch Modified, Polyglyceryl-3 Polydimethylsiloxyethyl Dimethicone, Sorbitol, Sodium Chloride, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Castanea Sativa (Chestnut) Extract, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Seed Extract, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Tocopherol, Parfum/Fragrance, Aluminum Hydroxide, Stearic Acid, Butylene Glycol, Peg/Ppg-18/18 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, Benzoic Acid, Dehydroacetic Acid, Polyaminopropyl Biguanide, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Benzoate, Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Linalool, Citronellol, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Coumarin, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Geraniol

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pickart:

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen:
Titanium dioxide offers relative poor protection and too much of it can be whitening. I rather have Tinosorb M instead of titanium dioxide. Too much of this UV absorber is also whitening, but it is far more effective. Tinosorb M is an organic micronized UV absorber with minimal dermal penetration.

Antioxidants can boost the SPF significantly. There are some patents claiming traditional UV absorbers and an antioxidant complex work synergistically. Thereby reducing the need for UV absorbers to accomplish the same SPF.

There are also studies showing iron chelators enhance the SPF as well as the UVA protection.

Several polymers and non actives like SunSpheres can dramatically increase protection.

Why would a company file a new drug approval when they can add them as non active ingredient? It only would require the use of at least one FDA approved UV absorber in the product to claim sun protection.

Tinosorb M is methylene bis-benzotriazolyl tetramethylbutylphenol. Molecules like this absorb much UV energy then start to break down into toxic side products that enter the body. Stable is a relative term and none of these are very stable under hours of UV light. The human body has great difficulty remove such types of alien molecules.

Titanium dioxide is a simple molecule that stays on the skin's surface and has few breakdown products - none of which would be a problem.

The pink hippo sunscreen would be better.

These organic UV absorbers such as Tinosorb absorb energy then start to break down. This generates fragments that enter the skin. Some fragments release free radicals and are toxic to cells.

Hi MJ,

You mentioned you use Skin Biology High Mineral Day Cover...

I only find Day Cover (which I currently use) avaible on the site...

Where can I find it?

Thanks!

I too am interested in a stronger Day Cover for summertime use. I am loving the regular one that I received samples of, btw

We made a stronger version but it gives skin a pasty look.

Oh, we certainly don't want that

I'll stick to Day Cover for Daily use year-round & my natural suncreen on top when going out in the hot summer sun...

Thanks!

Am I to understand that Micronized Zinc Oxide would negate the effects of CP's that have been applied beneath it?

FitMama, that's my understanding as well.